Text
•
The Mabel Hampton Tapes
February 25, 1999
These tapes were made in the years 1976-1988 approxi1nately.For the majority of the tapes,
the setting was the home of Joan Nestle, Deborah Edel and the Lesbian Herstory Archives which
was also the home ofMabel Hampton from 1986-1989', the time o,fher death. After Lillian
F'oster's death in 1978, Ms. Hampton frequently stayed at the archives, having her own key and
using it as a base for her work in t.he conununity and her many trips to Atlantic City. In 1987, Ms.
Hampton moved in with Lee Hurl.sonand Joan Nestle and the archives, having grown too ill to
keep her apartment in the Bronx. The tape with Lillian Foster was made in 1976 at the Bronx
h,omeof Ms. Hampton and Ms. Fost•er.
Several more tapes exist and are housed at the archives that have not been transcribed and
several other tapes have been made by other people and are in their possession. There are also
several video tapes of Ms. Hampton and many snapshots. The Lesbian Herstory Archives is the
home of the Mabel Hampton Special Collection. (LHEF, Inc., POB 1258, _ .·, 10116, ph 718768-3953, fax 718-768-4663. Joan Nestle ·canbe reached directly at 212-873-3765 or e-mail
Joannestle@aol.com} A complete bibliography of the archives' holdings of the life of Mabel
Hampton is in process.)
1
The tapes were transcribed by Sara Atatimur, a blind woman who was an activist in both the
lesbian community and the disabled community. She was ,a stu,dentat Rutgers when she was killed
in a traffic accident in 1989. The Open Meadows Foundation mad.ethe transcriptions possible
with a gr.antof 1200.00 in 1986.
I started making these tapes in the mid 70s when I knew very little about oral history f01·mal
procedures. Thus at times I ask stupid questions, am too intrusive and too abrupt in beginnings
, and endings. But these tapes are also the story of our relationship with all its complexities.
Please give credit to this resource in the following way: The Mabel Hampton Special
Collection/LesbianHerstory Archives/Lesbian Herstory Educational Foundation, Inc.
Joan Nestle
•
•
(!)
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON (M)
Joan Nestle
(J)
Deb £1:iel
(D)
Interviewer:
Interviewer:
J:
You were
seven?
D:
No, you
remember
J:
You remember
back
M:
Sure,
I was around
grandmother.
tell
you,
mother
My mother
the
reason
Carolina.
chickens,
to
turkeys--all
five
to--gramma
kinds
five
and
with
over
another
to
all
had
white
my
here
old.
Now, I
was:
my
younger
in Winston-Salem,
and colored
in
vegetables,
of things--(dog
1
six.
mother's
school
pigs,
six.
story.
me and--my
had
and
I was a month
is
I went
The school
And I used
to
switch
raised
me.
to
when
Now that
my grandmother
sister--they--raised
there.
died
I have
was poisoned.
So,
North
I do.
back
barks).
Libby,
L
Mabel
ain't
it
Page
Hampton
nobody
after
(Dog continues
you!
to
2
bark).
Oh,
no,
came back.
where
J:
Chickens?
M:
Chickens,
there
it's
all
turkeys.
And we lived
was--something--"What
on one
call
a house
a house
where
floor?"
J:
Like
M:
No,
a railroad
No,
houses--something
like
was a very,
very
school,
I went
and
do you
in
nice
No,
flat?
No,
that--the
all
to
the
colonial
around.*
go to
And it
church,
Sunday
school.
One time,
they
vaccinated
it.
So gramma
whipped
call
it--suet
from
like
rooms
I used
house.
to
It's
No.
me,
me and
the
put
chimney
and
gramma
some of
didn't
like
that--what
on my arm and
do you
made me stay
in.
Most
I liked
about
and on each
side
fun
around,
last
dozen
runnin'
one--and
or more
Everybody
*
was--across--in
was people
that
with
you know.
birthday
she
for
means
the
children.
I had
went
us,
huntin'
and
a ranch
We had
must
for
of
us
so much
once--the
have
we was out
house.
2
back
a birthday
I took--it
children--and
was lookin'
Perhaps
it
been
a
grapes.
in
(SA)
somebody's
Mabel
Hampton
orchard
lookin'
for
I see
apples.
some apples,
So,
I didn't
There
died
remember
found
it
and
I heard
she
So,
gave
was my boyfriend.
school
every
Let
field
big
Sunday
and
out
whipped,
And he grew
He had--I
can't
and
in
I was
he was adopted
lessons.
come,
I got
I got
thing.
it,
boy,
stealin'
us girls.
whole
about
him violin
He'd
me see,
is
night,
of
the
this
And,
and he'd
take
New York
by a white
I would
me to
say
he
Sunday
mornin'
what
else
from us--we
were
(or haul or hole)
hall.
now it
in
those--
(Laughs).
me.
when he was twenty-one.
happened.
woman,
boy
all
3
and--what's
up on a fence,
us that
because
one
what--but
when it
clamb
woman caught
they
mind
And grapes
now,
the
was only
up--he
grapes.
myself
and
of there.
but
Page
happened
near
there?
a railroad
I went
known as a teachers'
in
to
Across
the
This
big,
station.
school,
and the
college.
Then,
school
it
is--
was very
pretty.
We'd
was kind
had
of
an aunt
clothes
school.
long.
from
Grarnrna would
And she'd
in New York,
up there
graduated
years
go to
to
one
me.
small--I
put
nice
and this
But
she
fix
dresses
aunt
wouldn't
guess
my hair--my
would
old.
3
on me 'cause
send
six
I
fine
come up.
I was about
hair
After
or
seven
I
Habel
Page
Hampton
One day--I
he chicken
th
re
got
coop
an<l steal
today.
And she
w nt
in
in
h
chickens
n
nd out
silv
chair
y,_
I
i
n'
know.
I
w s
so
I
y
w
h
ro
l
om n
n'
to
into
go in
and
I love
eggs
would
give
me some,
and
gramrna
said,
'Who
got
mad at
one
and
the
chickens
dropped
the--it
out
of--and
I was
was
was
small
born--my
could
put
me in
ramrna
once,
she
was
and
shook
me out
me
hough.
I'd
imagine,
She
was
something,
small.
h
chair
on
he
.
r rnrna was
ro
ha
busy
makin'
that
enough
to
get
was
big
s
and
coffee
the
working
pilla
very
a pint
'til
a door
head
you
bother
OU
dern
they
and
or
n
day,
because--!
pot.
bed
in
or
yard.
th
I don't
and
forgo
covers.
And
harmin'
nic
h
lookin'
oo.
0
0
And I used
me go
her,
and
h
n
eggs.
made
for
there
small.
the
aunt
eggs
go in
r dollar
other
those
there
of
up--rny
steal
So,
I w s so
0
and
there?"
m_ bin'
hooked
4
pro
SC
0
s
0
0
r
C
s
00
0
0
0
s--
. d,
m
h
C
0
I
Mabel
*
death.
Page
Hampton
I hollered--I
stage.
That
on me like
growlin'
that.
she
live
It
a little
she
take
at--there
take
and
good
meat.
bacon
store--all
a mile
nothin'
like
So,
tellin'
now.
love
to
chicken
M:
But=they
school--Teachers'
across
is
eggs
cook
pretty
College,
Cf. with the story
she says that
Santa Claus
line.
(SA)
to
top
store--or
like
her,
where
floor.
that
those
eggs
bacon.
They
get
my plate--and
gramma's
we
she'd
Girl,
smell
to
things
some chicken.
was
and
wasn't
I never
chicken.
good.
good
It's
door
See?
and
like
street
in
was
help
on the
could
I used
were
the
would
and
you
cook
Chicken
take
you,
eat.
the
rushin'
and
next
up there.
could
they
between--up
were
things
hogs
stuff
meat
gramma
J:
I lived
*
the
we got
to
the
and
and
in
me off
my gramma--it
kill
and we'd
They
I just
be able
meat
away.
chicken!--oooh,
would
her
and
took
it.
come around
house
I'm
Claus
later,
would
was a yard
was a private
gramma
take
while
men would
would
Santa
couldn't
time--and
the
and
old
that--I
I guess,
Christmas
hollered--and
5
chickens
[from
known
on the
came in
5
where]
[as]
there,
you know.
I went
now.
to
And I had--
LHA video
of Mabel wherein
before
she got to say her
Mabel
the
children
Miss
Page
Hampton
van
I played
She had
Owen.
So,
was married.
lot
she
was--the
a house,
schoolteacher's
not
was very
far
nice
to
from
name was
ours,
and
She taught
me.
she
me a
of things.
One day--one
day
with
6
I didn't
cold
Monday~-I
get
up so early--I
or what--and
So,
I spring
she
had
the
people
the
doctor,
phone
much for
in the
I kept
she
this
never
at
at
said
her.
me and
my hair,
So,
went
see
I didn't
never
that
was up and
too
much;
gramma.
know what
at
I kept
to
they
she
watching
Gramma had
6
gramma,
called
So then
we had
Never
cared
she
And
And my
stroke.
in
combin'
the
bed.
talk,
was wrong
my
It
And,
couldn't
to
too
came.
everything.
her.
do then.
kitchen.
came,
it--was
layin'
a
So I called
anyhow,
forget
gramma
I looked
combin'
to
had
I had
the
floor.
come up.
So,
she
in
a stroke.
to
if
kitchen:
and
I knew something
through
she
had
nice.
at
the
walk,
aunt
aunt--I'll
looking
She looked
she
The sun
to
on the
down the
over
remember
crash
went
one week after
I looked
don't
layin'
She wasn't
morning.
a sudden,
was
get
on something--one
a terrific
bed,
said
to
younger
and
she
doctor
lived
the
door,
her.
mamma's
hair,
of
a stroke,
New York
gramma
I heard
out
next
be skippin'
was
all
of
see.
with
her.
And when my aunt
got
gramma
gone
in
the
bed.
away.
I was a big
girl,
goin'
Mabel
Page
Hampton
on eight
York,
years
so she
of
called
of that
ended
and got
everything.
the
funeral
Now, you
tell
the
end of
So,
I couldn't
come back
to
here.
got
So,
came back--I
to
I called
younger
sister,
never
I hadn't
been
was fresh;
with
knew.
then
all
used
mamma grew
the
chickens
Of course,
besides,
you know.
So,
to
So,
across
They
just
her
my sister,
doctor
they
had
why,
cannot
read
tell.
you tell.
it
had
eatin'
out
they
and
You
that's
street,
but
train
spoiled,
food
like
I guess
she
took
So,
took
with
See,
'cause
our
what
I
me a
food
they
did
I never
boys--the
everythin'.
was my little
7
So,
everything,
the
tale
was my
gave
that
to
the
All
that,
she
around
had
sister.
that.
garden.
there
she
you know.
like
in the
she
Now, there's
the
all
said
younger
it--on
was runnin'
the
the
That's
what
and
husband.
and things
I guess
all
go back.
they
a dern
her
my aunt,
she
to
give
together
forget
it
got
in here.
my mother's
sandwich--liver--and
So,
New
do it.
things
New York
come from
passed.
and
something
don't
had
came and
had
something
you want.
my aunt
aunt
she
there's
people
come in
other
She said
aunt
mamma had
my aunt
there's
anything
other
her
And the
see,
it.
the
told
So,
all.
now,
can
aunt's
and
who writes,
Of course,
over
So,
that.
and
everybody
age.
7
friends,
and
men,
®
Mabel
Hampton
Dollbaby
and
then
Page
Pattie
Anna Mae Thomas,.
was sweet,
always
she
had
runnin'
Still
M:
What do you mean?
J:
Where
did
M:
They
lived
Still
in
until
after
my aunt
gets
I wouldn't
eat
we came
that
too
street
from
I was
liver
liver
on the
me because
eat
remember
He looked
was an East
Indian.
He's
out
of
train
comin'
I wouldn't
it.
eat
So,
how we came
Station?
train.
it.
when we
in.
I don't
know.
I
well.
Mabel.
wavy hair.
get
on the
I know when a man came up to
is
me in
I don't
the
I wouldn't
can't
He was tall,
George.
the
in Pennsylvania
anyhow,
"This
the
eating
mad at
it,
New York--!
remember
Uncle
and
she
grarnma--
So,
niece."
Boy,
girl.
And her
Winston-Salem.
I was eatin'
said,
And
live?
across
Yeah,
But
she
they
M:
Whether
was a sweet
a girl.
down south?
When you were
to
and
way down here.
J:
Okay,
can't
braids
she
J:
Winston-Salem
gets
Oh,
was a boy
around.
Winston-Salem.
in.
It
Harris.
8
Mabel
dark,
like
Hampton.
and had
he was
And she
says,
a minister."
the
Indian
8
This
most
or
is
and
my
beautifullest
something.
"Now Mabel,
Because
my aunt
they
He
this
is
knew
I
your
Mabel
Page
Hampton
wanted
names
those
and
people
was quite
all
that
there--they
taught
a few colored
the
white
that.
So,
I knew right
So,
girls.
he says,
May,
from
she'll
didn't
wrong
is
old."
I didn't
like
him.
when they're
good
And
me--there
taught
divide
she?"
years
school.
taught
and
be eight
foreigners,
in
They
there.
"How old
was a minister.
Those
in
I was
us--they
They
taught
"In
because
9
us
the
like
work
a little
bit
And I think
I didn't
they
like
of
she
like
everything.
says,
him.
He was a handsome
lookin',
they're
He
man.
good
lookin'.
So,
he says,
when he gets
do I say
piano
to
it
the
now--I
was.
house,
So,
and that's
where
sing,
she
side.
go into
door,
the
But he fixed
on Sunday.
What's
one
was at
his
at.
So,
church
You come in,
and there
in
to
do."
me sleep
in
room where
52 West
Eight
to
he found
the
was something
up like
a church
when it
And,
after
he preached,
mind?
Go ahead.
9
the
basement,
out
that
I
The kitchen
steps,
you
a livingroom.
come time
he would--
the--how
Street--
the
front.
like
Now,
I think
you go down four
it
on your
J:
the
let
a lot
go down a few steps
lived
so he had
was one one
in
place
and you
we got
my aunt
slept
Now, this
downtown.
could
"Come on now,
to
preach
Mabel
Hampton
M:
what's
(Evidently
on her
After
Page
J:
No,
M:
She wants
J:
Well,
M:
it
out
all
about
a pet),
You know
mind?
go ahead.
he preached
take
speaking
10
to
she's
get
up on my lap.
going
to
have
to
not.
Go ahead.
the--
After
down.
he would
I had
preach,
to
wash
then
I would
dishes,
and
have
I never
to
went
anywhere.
So,
until
then,
five
alive.
very
they
years
See,
I can't
some of those
forget
that
papers
one word
rape
that's
name her
was all
part
yet.
the
word.
got
to
as
me is
still
name but
part.
it's
Up
She was
written
So then,
I live.
I could
teach
me to
And that
word
to
tell
shoe
off
swollen
So,
school.
another
school.
to
his
me in
in
home.
he was trying
mad and took
to
liked
long
it.
My mouth
never
as
grasp
face.
the
going
tried
one night,
and he got
My aunt
woman who taught
I got
And she
I couldn't
And,
the
quite
I started
word.
but
ago,
up.
and you know--oh,
nice.
So,
fixed
like
I think
10
I'll
not
remember
remember
was
that
word,
"went"--w-e-n-t.
me about
and beat
that.
never
this
me all
We didn't
I remembered
it,
"went",
in
the
come
but
I
Mabel
So,
said
he--my
to
myself,
me sleep
where
lay
in
aunt
went
"I've
got
bed.
In there
coal
down there.
out,
it
nothing
somebody
life,
gave
that
looked
and
right
out
me,
to
Eighth
at,
I went
in
another
and
I walked,
ground,
That
in
and
the
woman put
something
down,
wasn't
I'm
early--about
So,
it
was a dress--
call--a
dress
on.
And I walked
may come to
was a turnin'
to
walk
around
Don't
I come to
I call
point
in
a ring
it--a
I goes
down there,
and
of the
to
me.
three
story.
It
o'clock.
11
come
I was
I didn't
in
the
down there.
and
I went
was early
it
And I walked
thing
was gain'
my
and
where
fret.
me--
in
some more,
a thing--now,
and people
ahead
I
jumper
I see
in there.
and a woman said
too
that.
When I recognized
this--as
made me
of
happened--it
direction.
So,
you
let
place
down and
tired
I
I walked.
right
Street.
subway.
Now, wait,
a blanket
I started
sidewalk,
a coal--a
jumper
That
finally
about
was the
and
me.
He wouldn't
had
in--what
this
I walked
back
know nothing
with
me a nickel.
to
here."
I got
11
And he raped
a skirt--no,
arms
So,
day.
they
know how that
nickel.
like
leave
on but
I walked
I don't
to
day,
your
And I went
So,
one
he put
this
you put
I walked
out
at--and
So,
with
had,
dress.
and
the
you put
went
and
Page
Hampton
and
enough--it
And she
says,
sat
this
Mabel
Page
Hampton
"aren't
you Miss
somebody,
she
"little
girl?
you doin'
down here?"
evidently,
She
to
What are
this
says,
"Here's
Harlem."
the
and,
when the
where
in
know what
a park.
had
go back
to
things
to
That
City.
not
do.
Sounds
always
her.
to
to
like
Were you
M:
No,
Now, to
I seen
the
"
scared?
angel
that
and have
place
And he would
was my aunt.
with
ta
and
of
direct
it's
you
feelin'?
anything,
Joan.
I wasn't
on me and
his
was as
crazy
*
I come to
so--
mad with
And she
didn't
finally
me.
him pull
get
get
New York,
children--I
'cause
scared
in
all
I come upstairs
What were
a guardian
I'm
me,
people
was not
Street.
tale
was
on in
*
and walked,
I never
I went
down.
out,
a fairy
down stairs,
I sat
playin'
I walked
Come back
and
Grove
use
J:
me.
I goes
Now, we was not--we
Jersey
I seen--I
"All
"Yes."
uptown.
there,
Street.
man says,
name,
So,
in
nickels
Eighth
come out.
So,
her
I said,
You go back
come up,
train
When the
we were
the
So,
a lot.
know this.
put
people
away
a nickel.
away from
up and
ran
I don't
seen
gettin'
girl
called
12
wife
I
goin'
try
to
to
do
and beat
as he was.
According
to her stories
on the video,
the
pricipitating
event
for Mabel leaving
her aunt's
house was
an incident
at school
after
which she was threatened
with a
whipping,
not the rape by her uncle.
(SA)
12
Mabel
So,
walked
all
Page
Hampton
I goes
into
and walked,
these
playin'
on in
looks
"Corne on.
Get
at
I says,
at
for
"Mabel."
knew.
I could
swing."
makes
So it
swingin'.
your
So,
So,
been
schooled
English
swing,
So,
it
to
she
went
get
girl
says,
"Okay."
to
had
I says,
"Yes."
to
I goes
me,
at?"
is
I
your
name?"
enough,
I
says,
"Come on,
like
it.
It
We went
on
alright.
comes
you cold?"
she
"Don't
and
or
So,
I. says,
dark,
or brother
I'm
out
me and
she
tall
girl
another
something.
So,
She says,
you a sandwich
still
says,
"Where
with
she
"Wait
and bring
there
her
says,
and
"Aren't
I'll
a minute.
you
is
something
to
on.
So while
sandwich,
where
must
good.
says
live
I'd
seen
So,
girl
do you
I
of the
swingin'.
an Italian
Where
all
Naturally,
some uncle
put
swings
Street.
I gets--I
and black,
"What
And she
go home and get
So,
says,
the
people."
park.
She
and
began
was Grove
a second.
swim."
else
this
swing.
on the
my head
something
them.
speak
I got
I seen
This
time--the
on the
her
park.
playin'--white
a good
and
looked
and
children
havin'
this
13
and
you're
have
she
was gone--she
I started
goin'
been
eatin'
because
in her
teens.
comes
it.
my brother
I says,
13
back
with
the
She says,
"Now, tell
will
you.
"Well,
take
my aunt
me
She
told
me
Mabel
to
Hampton
stay
Page
here
"Where're
"Well,
until
you
I'll
go after
to
see
I'll
and
I sit
"Gee,
on me.
Now,
So,
woman--whoever
to
she
name was Bessy
her
twenties,
from?
shopping."
Well,
like
"we"--and
seen
this
boy
seen
them
before--seen
Bessy
says,
other
girl--she
she
put
down the
from
and
the
said--"if
around
cop
me a sandwich
me.
and
the
cop
was mo'
would
I
put
lucky
that.
a
to
with
So she
there
me than
her.
says,
her
until
I says,
Her
in
"Where
the
same
she
went
looked
down the
about
four
I knew that
was
a cop
because
the
walk
around,
you home."
woman comes,
14
story.
some
of
take
you
"New York."
street--!
cops
the
woman--somethin',
I told
sit
come or
distance
them
I'll
the
She had
it
a woman back
you from?"
comin'
"Come,
give
"Tony,
aunt."
sandwich.
and
be here?"
me to
we looked
street-no
the
She was a young
told
"Where
find
because
brings
somethin'
"Hy aunt
says,
You go after
the
She
So,
she
White.
She
says,
there.
got.
How you come to
I said,
ate
says,
So she
way.
Hood cape
worry
boy was because
She
brother.
I can
and
I sat
I began
her
nice.
me.
"New York."
if
there
she's
get
go this
me a Red Riding
thought,
cape
She calls
and
and
brought
I says,
way,
go that
So,
come and
from?"
alright."
you
the
she
14.
you
And she
bring
blocks
I'd
know.
said
her
I
So,
to
to
the
my
Mabel
I live
house.
says,
"All
So,
if
Page
Hampton
the
on Seedler
cop
got
get
that
beat
very
me in back
throw
out
So,
badly
of the
words,
and
a girl
go up the
with,
silent.
she
steps.
says,
"Are
must
have
been
So,
sing,
and
eat
alright.
New York.
and the
that
got
"My aunt
from
was peckin'
And he used
he took
the
ends
her
people
on
to
used
to
money.
her
house,
right
there.
and
she
her
out."
lost.
Help
left
me there."
says,
Now,
In other
my age
right
in,
was a private
On the
it
one
And the
you hungry?"
side
kids
straight
on down,
could
because
eat.
so much.
and
"Yes,
almost
Now, it's
doing
we
on the
all--marvelous.
ma'am."
eggs--rolls--you
I ate
house,
was Italians;
I says,
eggs--three
hungry
I always
I can't
to
I knew that,
he always
me to
was Italians.
me eggs--scrambled
that
to
When we walked
gave
bread.
She
City.
See.
front
side
me back
me around.
that's
I knew everything
Alright.
So,
court
and dimes,
continue
I kept
other
Jersey
me, because
because
woman carried
"Mamma, here's
to
take
we disappeared.Now
And this
I got
got
slappin'
nickels
Alright?
she
me, he would
my backside--knockin',
take
That's
right."
I was so glad
And I'd
Street."
15
a whole
me very
She
know,
loaf
of
bad
See.
She says--and
I have
15
this
little
red
cape
I
Mabel
on and this
and,
Page
Hampton
as
blue
I went
in,
where
I come in
lookin'
woman.
she
was.
I guess
me.
You stay
with
said,
"We'll
glad
of that.
So,
name.
quiet
to
for
and
went
up your
They don't
of
"That
of
the
left
is
of
a good
Oh,
some woman.
and
she
looked
just
chair--she's
eight--and
she
says,
with
her,
find
you clothes."
and
"You'll
and
like
kind
of
"You come with
she
bathed
me,
Always
sleep
with
and
talked
me."
I was
yeah!
stayed
I went
with
them.
for
my aunt.
to
school,
The other
I knew
sister
she'd
went
never
you know I knew my
about
me.
I kept
was a very
nice
woman.
a husband,
dress.
were
give
come on in,
I kept
quiet.
years.
White
girls
myself,
hair,
lookin'
as
twenty
"Well,
woman sitting
was admiring
says,
I knew everything
was the
feel
have
See,
says,
me."
Oh,
So, Miss
(sounds
like)
bitchy
hand
five
And she
on about--she
to
up out
upstairs
I went
her.
get
about
I went
softly.
I say
beautiful
she
So,
very
a young
I always
So,
tall,
find
at."
She
dress.
I seen
She had
an angel.
she
jumper
16
And,
all
in
fresh.
a damn what
he wanted
those
days,,
Old men have
you are
you one time.
16
She had
to
the
always
a
do was put
his
women swear
been
or who you are.
fresh.
They
it
Mabel
Hampton
So,
about
Page
I made
lots
a month,
City.
of
they
Now, that
put
ends
friends.
And,
me in
school--Number
that
after
17
I was there
32,
in
Jersey
part.
D:
Was that
family
white
or black?
M:
Hah?
D:
The Smiths--the
M:
What do you mean?
J:
The family
you were
with.
D:
The family
you were
living
Whites,
were
they
white
or
black
black
people
Blacks
or
They were
D:
So,
M:
Their
D:
It
around
there,
yeah.
See,
always
So,
all
like
White.
it
black
was an integrated
neighborhood
then.
together.
so.
and they'd
I never
There
bring
treated
to
that.
Then,
from
32 School
Ellen--she
oh,
were
in
knew about
I went
I told
neighborhood--
name was White.
I guess
been
they
people.
was an integrated
and whites
were
people?
M:
M:
I've
white
with,
food
what
a child
and
I told
Italians
and
people
nice
I met a lot
Ellen--her
was a light,
17
and
all
everything.
Oh,
holler
now.
about
by anybody.
of
girls
and
name was Ellen
brown-skin
woman.
Very
Mabel
Page
Hampton
She was quiet.
strikin'.
piano?--yeah.
her."
"I
go to
"I
like
Mabel.
bed,
used
hand
put
that.
I told
lied,"
was going
to
and carried
stayed,
me off
to
short,
else
and her
happened.
Right,
M:
Her girlfriend
where
name was Miner--the
I told
on him,
believed
him.
So,
in eighth
the
of weeks
see.
next
kill
Well,
was her
You were
name.
day,
took
he
me away
I
make a long
see,
got
of blocks
And I stayed
over
his
him.
I graduated
a long
18
one
And there
to
a couple
happened.
there
he says,
see.
grade.
D:
[and]
girlfriend?
lives
pappa
his
And after--let's
And mamma believed
thing
I
puttin'
she
house.
on out,
last
until
I would
me tight.
So,
me, but
storm.
Now comin'
J:
a couple
see.
come up there.
that
keep
She says,
when
father,
girlfriend's
I weathered
time,
the
"We'll
her."
always
after
and
play
Oh, boy!
he drinks,
her
says,
me and hold
[was]
gets
stick
so he didn't
story
what
the
At night
father
she
she
We' 11 keep
was grand.
because
get
she
arm around
her
So,
mother,
her."
her
Helen
I think--did
Mabel.
That
up my dress.
"So-and-so
told
I' 11 keep
she'd
to
So,
her
she
She says,
like
got
And,
And,
18
time.
down,
there
anger--'cause
Yeah,
from
his
wife
school
with
Mabel
Hampton
Page
M:
What?
D:
You stayed
M:
Yes.
there
And after
They was--this
woman took
Ellen--whenever
pop would
[I]
was scared
barks)
Ford
is
off
shut
she
after
So Ellen
Jersey
not
City.
had white
her
So,
Ellen
to
the
Whites
months.
took
white
sure.
baby
children,
She had
went
away
So after
brother.
(It
this
back
to
again.
I--
(dog
appears
with
the
on.
pregnant
Benny
it.
tape
about
I stayed
and me to
colored
a boy there
They
this
were
me,
always
you rnarry?"--her
Harris,
So,
after
I think
all
this
woman's
were--you
his
was
in
house.
And she
know--I
helped
there.
But
children.
Not too
Ellen
Pop got
Why don't
and they
the
no.
married.
me to
there,
and
Oh,
girl
I forgot
went
And after
the
me.
you marry?
married
house
became
hit
woman.
And he took
time
I run
this
children
in the
do anything,
a family.
a bit).
"Why don't
name--I'm
and--I
Oh,
took--she--and
people.
I met
children,
he would
I met this
her,
time.
I graduated,
in
God sakes.
I--then
and
that
for
a long
19
much happened
two years
there
passed
this
for
about
away from
woman's
children,
by--I
later,
and
can't
19
and
I went
a couple
of
childbirth,
house.
Benny
And she
she
was very
think
of his
back
had
nice.
name now--
Mabel
I got
Page
Hampton
it
wrote
down somewhere.
the
children
and
and
I became
very
guy.
I guess
like
I took--helped
fond
of
each
he was about
She--you
know--she
her
that.
like
other.
nineteen
20
take
So,
And he was
or
in
the
boy
a nice
twenty--something
that.
So,
something
forgotten
don't
about
you
your
find
out
think
you
now I'm
of her
is
stopped).
She got
to
holler
find
It's
something
to
M:
Uhmmm.
I was too
well
what
happened,
says,
"All
"You can
right."
I went
take
to
me,
"Why
and who['re]
out.So,
I said
down.
to
(Dog
everybody?
(Offers
says,
said
wrote
J:
Benny
know about--I'd
come from
gonna
name.
at
I didn't
Something
where
Tape
So,
me--and
I was.
just
Okay,
this--can't
to
how old
parents."
Barks.
said
to
care
eat).
raised
live
of the
to
with
baby
refuse.
this
woman.
and help
her."
So--
J:
You were
going
to
find
out
M:
Find
out
where
I come from.
find
out
who this
who you were,
you
said.
But
I want
bad--my
to
uncle
D:
and
all
'cause
man was that
I know all
that.
treated
me so
of that.
you hadn't
forgotten,
20
really.
You just
I
•
'•
Mabel
were
Pa.ge 2,1
Hampton
keeping
it
silent.
M: I hadn't
forget
'til
this
don't
forget.
day.
forgot
noting!
'cause,
when
There's
you're
nothing
treated
I
bad,
you
t
So,
Okay.
Benny
this
woman's
very
nice.
took
me after
house,
Ellen
and
we both
after
I was
passed,
stayed
and
he
took
me to
The woman was
there.
·•
So,
months,
meantime,
the
baby
passed
there
for
away.
D:
The baby
M:
Yeah.
D:
The order
quite
a number
of
-
also.
So that
that
ended
must
have
right
been
there.
very
upsetting,
•
because
you
M:
were
very
Yeah.
close
So,
to
the
woman,
I stayed
Ellen.
on with
lady.
the
So I
•
said
to
her
like
my mind
one
had
day,
I says,
slipped.
11
I wanna
I wanted
find
out.
Seems
11
to
find
out
everything
So,
the
boy
and
goes
to--
(dog
we went
to?
Orange,
she's
a bad
could.
•
So,
she
told
me,
'"Yeah.···
us money--we
gets
on the
What was the
name of
train
this
place
and
I--she
give.s
barks)
New
Jersey.
(About
after--they
the
don't
dog)
I tell
allow
dogs
you,
in
this
21
house,
girl.
do they?
So,
I
Mabel
Hampton
D
Page
& J:
M:
Yes,
they
I ought
to
22
do.
find
you
a second
home.
l.yt.,
let's
So,
boy
see,
J went
and
to
people
on Eight
or
people,
ten
Jersey.
There,
New York.
So,
Street.
it
come out
that
comes
this
back
home.
minister
Sure
knew George
aunt
was
still
So,
I left
my name
and
later--can't
think
of
who had
the
aunt
here."
is
you
was dead,
my aunt
had
about
moved
to
he was
nine
New
a
enough,
children--she
have
see.
There
But,
I'd
heard
So,
him.
He told
he
and
I
said
he would
me that
my
to
for
And then
woman's
in,
she
name
said,
So !--when
her
for
he stood.
He had
lookin'
the
"Hey."
bought
you.
Winston-Salem.
disappeared
a church,
Mills.
address.
came
I said,
could
killing
start
he find
to
alive.
You see,
they
question
I questioned
And I went
him.
like
to
him by--'cause
find
door,
this
in?
minister.
So,
weeks
this
I began
after
I trailed
Alright.
reverend,
think
now how do I bring
about
to
save
"Mabel,
I walked
a dime.
two
my life
your
in
the
She thought
And I said,
I
"Mister,
I feel
he was wanted
in
no.
from
killed
you.
my aunt
a white
Okay.
New York.
22
that
man.
In them
And he and
her
days,
had
c9
Mabel
Hampton
first
J:
Oh, that's
M:
That's
because
But
l,i ttle.
M:
before
Wait
you didn't
and take
my aunt
And she
in
New York.
could
the
But
I kept
me,
but
I'm
says,
didn't
I don't
she
the
first
,,,,A> ..{I
she
Nobody
Because,
her
money
want
gave
it
to
she
didn't
could
give
to
they
him from
to
mornin',
but
so she
take
one night
house--came
I was asle~p,
could
of bed next
of this.
So,
in
when you were
I knew it.
My gramma didn't
out
knew all
f •
demanded
so much hell,
get
new York
that
came to
and
him away--so
raised
come to
realize
.J..
a minute.
in Winston-Salem,
up talkin'.
she
why they
gramma died,
house
to
New York
we--
D:
to
came to
23
place.
place
to
why they
Page
woke me
come back
Winston-Salem
it
to
them,
to
them,
but
and before
was gone.
have
our
tell
I
Now, I
me,
I knew it.
silent.
my aunt
was sitting
"I thought
you were
very
much alive."
"Why should
want
me."
know what
do 'cause
I'm
I stay?
there
dead."
"Well,
a woman now."
it."
want
I don't
23
you
me.
leave?"
"I'm
I
Your husband
know what
I says,
I says,
She says
"I know you did,
"Why did
You didn't
do about
chair.
I says,
She says,
She says,
to
in the
"There's
to
do.
nothin'
twenty-one."
(3
Mabel
So,
Page
Hampton
she
Well,
says,
"No,
you could
over
have
she
"Yeah,
Orange,
New Jersey.
says,
I won't
with
nobody.
people,
I'll
"
I got
and they're
white
and
have
wanted."
"Yes,
end of the
father?
it.
forget
on the
on the
visits.
She says,
*
"yes.
She says,
"I' 11 come to
live
with
see
my own self
right
here
to
"My mother
and here's
Carolina.
he had.
You may want to check
or Greenville,
NC.
(SA)
to
24
would
anything."
who is
my
father
is
from
brothers,"
and
"And he used
he used
those
to
she
to
come in
brothers?"
I think
if
the
I knew a little
eight
one?"
see
mother
here,
One of
"Which
"With
to
"Okay,
he my father?
live
comin'
She says,
I says,
to
these
want
your
He had
need
your
name?"
in
So,
thing,"
"Now listen
you see,
me?"
you.
I said,
wouldn't
another
"Well,
I says,
"But
see
I says,
with
I grow,"
me.
She said,
visits."
went
"We' re
us?"
I don't
was my mother's
Is
come to
you.
live
how many sisters
come in
you
you.
come and
fine."
North
I done
with
She says,
Greensville*,
eighteen."
a quarter.
"Will
see
I said,
story.
And what
of
says,
lovely
did
only
I was thirty.
I says,
I says,
I says,
me for
come to
come and
Miss
bit
She
"You wouldn't
no,
You're
I thought
talked.
I says,
not.
bought
so much ground,
So,
she
you're
24
meant
she
said
his
Breensboro
I
Mabel
Page
Hampton
name was Joseph.
name is
it
She says,
"Well,
was killed."
I don't
know."
"How?"
woman's
It
must
father."
too."
I says,
"Well,
11
say in'
house,
says,
"Your
she
have
been
you poisoned
says,
11
I didn't
"She
couldn't
the
questions
that
your
that."
your
mother
I
do nothin'
"~ don't
you?"
say
little."
was poisoned."
somebody
"Then
I was
say,
She said,
"Was it
when
"Who
"But
I fired
I said,
She said,
She says,
I knew she
so
know."
that
She
her?"
"I don't
poison.
your
she
so young?"
"I heard
"Who poisoned
She says,
died
I said,
I say,
me in that
at
know,
was in
She says,
sister
"I
for
I says,
her.
it
love
to
was
with
loved
him
him."
"Well,
I'm
it."
So,
and
my mother
you that."
said,
So,
or Joseph.
Rogers."
"How is
told
George
25
see
she
says,
you."
"You comin'
That
Well,
the
her.
"Why' d you talk
something."
people
ended
were
to
that
right
so mad at
so nice
us?"
there.
me and they
to
I knew my name.
(End of Side
see
1).
25
her?"
"Yes,
I' 11 come
She walked
were
I said,
out.
so mad at
"I'm
after
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON (M)
Interviewer:
Interviewer:
Lillian
Foster
is
the
(L)-
See,
J:
This
Joan Nestle
(J)
Deb Adel
(D) E~\
it's
all
microphone.
in here.
Okay,
now,
The tape
here
is
in here.
Is
we go.
it
wound
up?
M: You mean to tell
the
table
talking
J:
No, no.
came in early.
want
you to
and this
me that
thing
sittin'
at
was on!
When you were
You were
we were
cleaning
just
the
now inside.
table,
okay?
And we
Now we
talk.
M:
What am I gonna
D:
You have
M:
But
J:
Yes,
lots
I don't
you do.
of
have
say.
stories
to
tell,
Mabel.
nothing!
Remember
1
the
story
you told
Mabel
about
the
girls'
M:
here
Page
Hampton
and
shoot
M:
experiences
just
talk
a woman about
that
a minute.
Come down
(inaudible).
Now, this
D:
Wait
my
being
tell
a minute.
Now, really,
experiences
could
school?
Now, wait
J:
a2
is
I don't
Well,
bit
some of your
town.
tough.
I've
had
so many
know them.
before
a little
about
you could
about
what
talk
Joan
about
that,
was like
M:
(Laughs).
She gonna
knock
me out
J:
I'd
hear
Mabel--I
as
you
a kid.
now for
fair.
Mabel's
rather
what
want
to
hear
stories.
D:
It'll
get
M:
You didn't
J:
That's
M:
I've
J:
Remember
her
started.
even
prepare
me at
all
for
anything.
I
at
a girls'
school
M:
I'm
not
telling
J:
good,
got
so it
some stories
the
story
and they
You know too
it.
Tell
you told
much.
I'm
the
come spontaneously.
but
thought
That,
about
will
theater.
2
us about--it
you had
I ain't
not
I--
telling.
was
magic?
gonna
tell
it.
Mabel
Hampton
Page
M:
What theater.
J:
Your
. When you were
in the
M:
show,
Oh.
I meets
and
twenty-five.
I seen
she
she
days
Oh,
yeah,
this
take
J:
What year
M:
Oh, that
After
lots
·But
one morning,
get
woman come to
know,
night,
the
sang .
in,
I was
in
this
twenty-four
liked
her
me how to
or
the
minute/
dance,
and
and--
was this?
was around
door
see,
door.
nineteen-eighteen.
And,
we used
take
happened.
the
I
She taught
me to
We'd
we came back,
locked
we couldn't
Well,
when you
She was about
show she'd
of things
one--they
uhmhum.
sweetheart.
the
and
theater
I don't
me home at
was my first
the
woman.
She was nice!
would
in
Village.
And then,
her.
night.·
early
a3
So,
girls
ringing
we couldn't
morning.
pulled
the
the
a fast
door
bell
want
at
places,
next
The locked
without
go out
different
come back
and the
on us.
to
And,
to
on us;
and the
ring
the
I
I
I
bell.
So I decide
go.
So,
I
I was
packed
up the
goin'
home.
next
She didn't
morning,
went
want
back
to
me to
Jersey
I
City
where
:lays
after.
around
there
I
come from,
And she
know'd
and
I
got
came over
to
that
she
a Job there
get
was white
3
me.
and
a couple
And everybody
I was colored.
of
J
Mabel
Hampton
She drove
get
a grey
me, and
she
She took
Island
Page
in
car.
She drove
was the
me to
sweetest
at
night,
thing
Cony Island.
a show there.
come back
a grey
me,
to
that
in the
and bring
come up to
ever
And I danced
You know,
get
car
walked.
over
show.
me back
a4
in
Cony
And she'd
to
Jersey
City.
Now, you don't
for
me.
outfox
want
You so foxy,
you,
see.
it
to
know anymore.
isn't
I know what
L:
Well,
you heard
N:
Okay,
you're
funny,
you after.
me,
listening.
too.
(Tape
cuts).
4
but
You're
I'm
going
too
foxy
to
-
so I heard
you.
But you was in there
Lillian
Foster
wonderful
bit
Page
pair.
I'll
never
regret
it.
But
she's
2
a little
tough.
D:
Where
L:
did
I met her
twenty-second.
whole
life.
don't
want
friends
· little
Death
it
to
will
be the
L:
New York
City.
J:
Remember,
And I had
friends
but
I'm
a ol'
Did you go to
L:
I went
will
end
J:
to
And,
and asked,
than
in
our
that,
I
all
the
in?
stories
was like
all
of
being
over
the
kid.
spoiled
that
clubs
night
lovers
city.
And,
lady,
And,
I'm
and at
then?
still
I
a
that
time
in night
clubs
and things?
clubs.
I really
of me--my
Tell
since
the
kid.
J:
City.
Other
tell
was a spoiled
spoiled
in Atlantic
us.
you would
What it
spoiled
separated
you meet
then?
I always
be the
never
September
end.
did
know.
thirty-two,
separate
What city
you had
in
nineteen
D:
I was a young,
~alked
her?
And we haven't
L:
don't
you meet
life.
story
you know,
enjoyed
my life.
This
my life.
you told
about
2
I lived
is
about
your
the
husband.
And that
woman who
Lillian
Page
Foster
L:
A lady
(inaudible)'s
:5irl.
wife--and
You have
1usband?
~ith
the
And,
key,
at
and
re'll
the
says,
"You is
little
home,
same time,
I said,
if
in
she
a beautiful
'Now, you know,
;aid
walked
[sounds
once--Joe
that
like
Louistro]
a pretty
neat
but
my friend
"There
is
was your
where
come in
my husband."
husband,
3
is
the
She
you wouldn't
it."
do--.
J:
But
L:
I said
J:
You want
Turn
you
it
said
it.
it.
off
to
hear
now.
it
now.
(Tape
3
is
All
shut
right,
off).
then
your
door
said,
have
Lillian
Foster
Page
L:
A lady
(inaudible)'s
girl.
wife--and
You have
husband?
with
the
And,
key,
at
and
we'll
the
says,
"You is
little
home,
same time,
I said,
if
in
she
a beautiful
"Now, you know,
said
walked
[sounds
once--Joe
that
like
Louistro]
a pretty
neat
but
my friend
"There
is
was your
where
is
come in the
my husband."
husband,
3
do--.
But
L:
I said
J:
You want
Turn
you
it
said
you wouldn't
it.
it.
off
to
hear
now.
it
now.
(Tape
3
is
All
shut
right,
off).
door
She said,
it."
J:
your
then
have
INTERVIEWWITHMABELHAMPTON
(M)
Interviewer:
Lillian
Foster
J:
in
the
Nestle
Just
tell
(J)
how it
was different
being
a lesbian
twenties.
M:
. man and his
I went
wife.
woman I ever
fell
I didn't
was gettin'
all
Joan
(L)
night
with
the
stay.
in
to
so big.
If
known.
that
a family--two
with.
it
That
and
about,
she
I phones
when she
When she
a
She was the
first
got
kissed
the
lasted
three
thing--.
so one night,
asked
ready
me,
for
me too.
me would
to
I stay
leave,
I fainted
first
solid
You hear
1
I
back,
Now that's
come on that
children,
She loved
was all
go home,
So,
the
had--ever
love
kids.
me.
was
in
The man was a doctor.
in and kissed
shock
work
know what
ready
(inaudible)
to
real
she
dead
away,
love
I ever
years.
me,
came
if
that
Mabel
comes
Hampton
on that
thing,
in
a theater
[Mc'Gaillion].
is
going
to
Tell
group
Ooooh,
still
with
J:
wait
the
Around
break
about
with
You knew--what
M:
This
I'm
Go ahead.
J:
You were
Page
it.
what
you were
saying.
Baker
and Eva
Josephine
it
was like
a minute.
b2
then.
Thaaaaat
was the
day.
dancing.
nineteen-eighteen?
Still
the
same
time?
M:
the
child's
that
Not only
name?
What's
J:
[Marlene
M:
No,
straightened
Josephine
but
woman's
there
was--what's
name?
Deitrik]?
she-the
that
Baker
-
Lillian,
hair?
J:
Lena
M:
What was her
what's
that
woman's
name
Walker?
Horn.
name?
Walker.
Wasn't
her
last
name Walker?
started
L:
Hundred
M:
No,
and twenty-fifth
she--the
straightening
L:
Who's
M:
Colored
L:
Yeah,
first--the
Street?
woman that
first
hair.
hair?
people's
hair,
up on a hundred
she was.
2
dear.
and twenty-fifth
street
Mabel
Hampton
M:
or
fingers).
used
to,
an hour
then,
Page
Oh, that's
right.
Nelia
[Lilia]
Walker.
L:
Marion
M:
Yeah,
1:
I'm
all
M:
Her
daughter
from
the
show,
L:
Girl
that
Well,
anyhow.
[Lilia]
b3
(Snaps
Walker.
Walker.*
her
M:
She fell
L:
daughter--
right.
was named
[Lilia]
Walker.
We all
go up to-fell
out
out
in the
school
-
of
there
like
And couldn't
get
up.
J:
What was the
name of the
M:
Layin'
J:
What was the
M:
It
one
day--
gangbusters.
Their
neighbor
come home
later.
there
But
on the
floor.
Hugh?
name of the
was a musical--
show?
show?
"Come Along
was,
oh God,
other
different
anyhow,
we went
up to
Lilia
*
[ 'manda]."
And
ones.
Walker--.
All
of them
Checking
a tape I have of Jewelle
Gomez lecturing
on
lesbians
in the Harlem Renaissance,
I find a reference
to a
"Madam C.J. Walker",
the first
black woman millionaire,
who
made her fortune
out of designing
a way to straighten
black
women's hair.
It's
possible
that
the C stands
for Celia,
although
Mabel seems to be referring
to Madam C.J. 's
daughter.
In any event,
Marion does not seem to be correct.
(SA)
3
Mabel
Hampton
now--they're
big
And we goes
Oh,
girl,
nothin'
stars
up to
it
but
pillows.
but
Page
this
pillows.
in.
lights--something
but
it
wall
M:
The base
of the
walls,
M:
Deh,
deh,
what
you know,
see.
in.
deh,
deh.
that
we stayed
it's
food,
there
they'd
in
light,
And you sit
to
do.
See,
who you know.
gray
car
a couple
on
You did
but
And I was known,
The woman in the
They had
you set
(inaudible)
get
club--
a key
was
the--
you not
to
Like
ain't
floor
like
bid
order
J:
And there
food.
they
wasn't.
Beautiful!
and you hug anQ you kissed.
that
in
hill.
in chairs;
'round
of the
in by who I know.
See.
set
was
and others
And on the
The base
be known
It
there.
L:
you want
had to
up on the
had
and you drink,
anything
dead
You didn't
was circle,
floors
house
was beautiful
And they
it
then--some's
b4
so I got
And I got
carried
of days.
you
me in.
We had
bring--
I
It's
J:
I
like
a hotel.
I
M: Yup.
she
had
them
wasn't
servants
went
big,
there.
big
It
was a house
there.
All
But they
people
like
the
were
up on the
stars--Ethel
little
there
are
later-I
,,
set
4
folks
now.
hill.
And
Waters--all
then.
See,
of
They
fifty
years
Mabel
Hampton
J:
It
was
just
beginning.
M:
It
was
just
beginning.
friends.
And I danced
recall
the
name of
because,
M:
No.
nine.
in
the
key
trying
night,
they
all
of them
that
were
morning.
So she
running
nobody
bothered
for
me.
starts
and
I goes
forty-second
Avenue,
them
was
a moment,
I'll
think
going.
of the
_There
it
get
club
man's
up there.
dancin',
that
the
name
Aw, there
was about
was about
I was friendly
leave
was
the
eight
2 o'clock
with,
she
landlady
the
in."
you."
want
you to
go,"
around,
all
around.
and thirty-fifth,
'cause
I'm
used
Boom, boom,
twenty-fifth
street,
me.
on and
I locks
on back
Lennox
I
around--going
Down hundred
to
I' 11 go with
I don't
boom.
So,
I
"No,
of
The name of
go home and
even
"Oh,
Joy.
girl
to
can't
says,
I says,
to
the
"I have
she
the--jupt
was going
through
So,
says,
because
of
I'm
And we got
, says--I
the--at
Garden
of Joy.
one
And all
b5
it.
(Inaudible)
a bunch
or
at
L:
The Garden
was
Page
the
to
let
the
woman in.
door,
put
the
the
club
Street,
between--that
of the
keys
She was waitin'
in my pocket
Garden
up on a hill.
of Joy.
And just
was a hundred
5
and
hundred
as
I got
and thirty-third
on
Mabel
Hampton
Street
one
in
Page
and
Lennox
the
back
I says,
Avenue--this
of
me.
"Wait
for
man walks
He says,
what?"
"Wait
in
b6
front
of me,
and
a minute."
Now, he don't
know where
I'm
going.
So he says,
I says,
grabbed
"You're
"I'm
not
Now that's
opened
the
room
in
you,
these
Makes
door
for
things
He took
house.
Makes
He took
that.
a woman came in--tall,
lookin'
woman.
And she
asks
I told
her,
So she
says,
We'll
take
Now, she
I told
me,
"Have
me up to
This
the
girl
that
door--he
"Well,
you ever
her
says,
okay.
this
I tell
Year
One.
had
time,
she'll
been
me a
the
opened
very
given
the
door,
attractive
do."
with
a man?"
"No."
"Well,
I
him I was nineteen.
brown-skinned,
And he says,
the
where
me.
So he says--at
at
from
'cause,
on since
my ring.
knocked
them
and thirty-first
a block
me strip.
you?"
and took
doorbell--somebody
do.
are
a hundred
of
And carries
going
he punched
"How old
Both
a half
landlady.
been
us.
you.
to
the
and
my watch
with
me back
has
me strip,
with
practically
a private
He says,
and
coming
me and brought
Street.
ring.
coming
She'll
along."
"Dress."
6
be alright.
She'll
Mabel
Hampton
I put
meetin'
gets
the
or
down into
the
school
was the
I
Street,
I had
front
of me,
don't
know where
like
would
time.
In comes
no money.
what,
I went
the
slammed
that
but
it
right
you know,
the
out
"She's
that
gone
train
at
like
that,
I don't
struck
the
down to
platform
didn't
side
and
where
thirty-
there
was a
go downtown.
a hundred
subway,
and forty-
the
man's
woman,
'cause
I was
down those
Two, three
he seen
that
and tenth
and the
I went
So,
side
a hundred
window.
and we
downtown
care
in
I
stairs
steps
me gone.
same thing.
thing,
ran
I don't
right
and he threw
know whether
door.
a hundred
there,
the
of me,
around,
the
that
door.
on the
I'm
at
The
downstairs."
under
to
the
figure.
man turned
I ducks
The door
through
leap
to
up_to
to
back
and
always
And the
man says,
that
come back
went
down,
a hundred
go down to
man in
she
I could
to
over
b7
'bout
I comes
subway
Isn't
when we get
and the
figurin'.
other
and
So,
nothin'
you know then,
down the
'cause
over,
and
And,
side.
Street.
the
Avenue
downtown
fifth
Libby
So when
school.
cross
say
we crosses
You went
on.
I don't
nothin'.
on Lennox
there.
I live
I
is
on.
street,
Street--the
subway
I
my clothes
friends
fifth
it
Page
it
and got
7
the
went
for
in the
car.
knife
right
inside
or
as
I could
be.
Street,
cross
over,
train
and
I was scared
and tenth
the
wait
uptown
Mabel
Hampton
Page
come right
on up to
that
four
time,
standin'
told
outside
them
life,
I never
'cause
more.
walked
they
were
right
thirty-fifth
they
have.
the
or
the
ain't
bell,
way--they
that
corner
a hundred
there,
nobody
copy
of
were
And I
the
Avenue
knew that
I had
seen
He says,
been
to
the
"Well,
a
they
woman--
a hundred
and
there--or
there
place
and they
where
Street.
there.
So,
everything
in
to
rang
"Booh."
We goes
room and
ride--
that
the
house
went
woman who owned the
the
some
went
them
man tell
and
my
Street,
they
I told
a red-stoned
and thirty-fifth
made the
didn't
where
And they
knew nothin'
walked--they
first
all
switchblade
and told
Street
say,
had
in
in
See,
It's
knives
went
house.
seventh
nobody
described
me.
At
and thirty-fifth
I heard
something.
me at
a hundred
me 'cause
We came back.
the
girls
so long?"
always
And they
down to
Street.
apartment
and
was you
me women ain't
up to
take
on the
Street.
so many switchblade
and thirty-fifth
gonna
forty-fifth
fellows
tell
back
went
hundred
the
"Where
seen
The come all
they
of
and
happened.
so don't
knives,
five
sayin',
what
Well,
and
or
a hundred
b8
there.
the
When they
they
house
I'd
been
'cause
she
girl
8
just
they
left
got
the
carried
get
cop,
come out,
and
in.
So the
said
she
there."
and
cop
hadn't
I
Mabel
Hampton
But
found
we all
the
people
you,
for
looked
man nor
white
for
those
people
nothin'.
slavery
So,
has
daddy
My mother
to
work.
one
let
I'm
nobody
ever
every
hour.
Ain't
never
girl
year.
I kept
tryin'
out
died
and ain't
this
thing
of
been
goin'
on since
to
when
about,
but
God--thank
bothered
me.
Well,
L:
From nineteen,
bothered
me.
didn't
J:
Well,
L:
I don't
M:
That
one
was a very
bad
see.
that.
9
this
New York at
right
in the
bed with
didn't
bother
that
ever
experience.
Never
ain't
nor
I had.
But nobody
Well,
me--man
want
How could
work.
right.
And they
what
go to
somethin'?
husband.
know.
that,
slept
to
I begged
story,
walked
bothered
I have
I bet.
like
all
I have
ever
and a man or her
another
that
of
me to
me go to
make a short
I was kiddin',
And nobody
they
to
Then
want
let
Now, isn't
M:
So maybe
him to
to,
age
I went
I went.
He didn~t
beggin'
the
I was twelve.
all
work.
get
talk
on my own at
That's
me go to
Well,
what
I always
I started
high-school
have
the
You know,
Jesus--.
nineteen.
me.
long
b9
began.
L:
the
night
woman nor
snatchin'
time
Page
had
woman.
be?
bothered
me.
I would
another
one
never
like
Mabel
Hampton
Page
L:
I've
been
a lucky
M:
And nobody
L:
But
girl
in
New York
blO
all
these
years.
times
is
sick,
I'm
'cause
you
gettin'
out
stayin'
older
me after
know now,
so bad
nervous
I'm
bothered
and
on the
in
I'm
I don't
the
half
that.
know why,
street
house
sick,
and
maybe
that
I'm
by myself.
I'm
very
that
half
Maybe
nervous
being
Lillian
Foster.
alone.
after
me,
J:
You can't
take
L:
But
ain't
nobody
M:
Me,
I don't
that,
I'd
really
were
but
J:
It
sounded
fought--took
care
of
of
each
protective
around
something
in
You've
heard
and
to
with
will
believe
them,
No,
that.
they
of
the
taught
It
as you
me it
never
were
each
bothered
me,
Anybody
walkin'
talking,
that
other.
even
about
I mean that
that
guides
that
the
women
you
other.
means
I once--I
it?
bothered
street.
me and
happen
ever
precautions.
out
very
in
of _yourself.
know.
step
M:
walks
I took
care
me.
rightens
joined
I still
me a lot
I have
Even
itself.
the
correspond
to
10
think.
a spirit
if
I'm
See,
[Rose
of
a little
that
wrong,
I really
Crucian].
bit
with
Mabel
Hampton
If
'
I lose
don't
worry
going
to
find
something,
about
find
it.
it.
want
you'll
worry--she
it,
I. lose
And ten
bother,,
''Oh,
I don't
If
when I don't
it
says,
Page
to
can tell
I lose
it.,
one chances
it.
If
get
she
you--I
I know i'm
I finds
loses
it.
I
something,
sur'e
and
it,•'
bll
I
later,
enough
'
she'll
L:
mother,
she
it.
go and get
be
nothin'
had
fight.
seen
I was
ain't
in
never
It
(The recording
J had said softly
second
is
'cause
nothing
side
is
Mabel
do you
school,
bothered
know,
I see
all
being
is
the
luckiest
Yes
sir,
she's
I've
never
the
children
there.
women with
very
been
lucky.
in
a
fightin',
time.
ends on this
side of the tape.
to herself,
I'm going
to turn
it
completely
And
me
was a different
anywhere
know her
I don't
by her
mother
my life.
in
Mabel.
over
be her
nobody--and,
J:
.here
watches
to
an angel
I ever
But
nobody
it
but
must
Somebody
on the
blank).
other
side
of the
Although
over,
tape.
The
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON (M)
Interviewer:
Joan
J:
Joan
Nestle
[This
Nestle
just
is
(J)
the
story]
of Mabel
Hampton,
in Bedford
hills.
There
with
helping.
M:
We arrived
J:
Did you go by bus?
M:
We were
How were
was--
you taken
there,
Mabel?
by bus
taken
or
car?
by car,
me questions--how
Wait
taken
buy--let
a minute,
and there
old
me see,
were
we taken
[I was]
I was the
only
one.
was a woman with
me.
She was asking
was
I?
J:
How old
were
M:
I think
I told
J:
Was that
M:
Yeah.
the
you?
them
I was eighteen.
truth?
And the
woman said,
1
"Well,
how did
you
Mabel
Page
Hampton
d2
i
I
come to
get
mixed
I said,
going
and
to
"I
take
I--but
cops
up with
didn't
us to
get
So I told
lik~
that
know who he was."
the
he didn't
come to
somebody
cabaret
do it.
or
man?"
He promised
something--my
So she
l
asked
he was
girlfriend
me to
tell
how the
me.
her,
"Well,
the
fellow
knocked
on the
door,
I
II
II
I!
1I
answered
Bedford
the
door--"
J:
We've
done
that.
We've
done
that.
Go on to
Hills.
M:
hungry;
Alright.
I told
She
her
So,
she
says--they
me was
I
"No."
"Do you know how long
says,
asked
you're
going
to
be
Ii
here?"
I says,
"Well,
I says,
years.
it
"But
seems
like
I don't
I'll
think
be here
I'll
for
be here
three
for
three
years.
She
said,
"Why?"
I says,
done?"
like
I says,
that.
She
you
"Because
"I don't
Why should
says,
do anything
I haven't
"Well,
or not.
done
anything.
know nothing
they
that
keep
judge
about
What have
a man or nothing
me in
here
three
don't
give
a dern
She gets
paid
there."
2
to
send
years?"
whether
you up
I
I
Mabel
Hampton
I said,
Page
"Well,
that's
a terrible
d3
way of makin'
a
livin'."
She
says,
"I know it
J:
Who was the
M:
This
investigator.
and
So,
she
had
mixed
wife
in,
big,
gray
and
She
that?"
We'll
in
big,
get
"Now,"
So,
here
she
So,
didn't
have
through
says,
his
trouble
she
you to
these
you to
a very
They
says,
have
"Well,
no trouble.
me food.
All
take
like
"You hungry?"
or white?
eatin'
in
and
black
"I'll
no clothes.
bein'
take
She was white.
I got
man there
young."
"I'll
M:
at . "
a private
He called
and we won't
give
Was she
says,
doin'
she
J:
she
look
in
And the
charmin'.
same thing,
They
says,
was my
eighteen."
alright,
"Yes."
be she
I went
house.
"My, you
the
you out."
I says,
private
"What was you
along
you?
was my investigator,
Hills.
was very
So I repeated
she
to
to
nice.
big
I'm
out
out
Bedford
says,
"Yes,
said,
get
turned
hair--he
-- .
woman who was talking
was very
she
I says,
you'll
It
we arrived
house--big,
She says,
woman was--turned
See.
I thought
is.
nice
didn't
3
the
dormitory--"
are
white
where
the
dinner.
give
people.
girls
Then,
you a chance
sleep
I
to
I
I
Mabel
get
Hampton
nothing.
Page
See.
She remind
J:
Anita
Bryant.
M:
Yeah.
Could
me of that
hussie
d4
right
over
there.
have
been
her
sister.
I
J:
The
judge
M:
The
judge.
J:
So,
did
M:
Oh yes,
J:
What
did
she
M:
Well
she
brought
I
[reminded
-
you
of Anita
Bryant].
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
;!
they
give
you
clothes?
I got-give
you?
in
the--let's
see,
what
did
I'
she
bring
in?
then--what
shoes,
do you
stockins.
And she
says,
the
She brought
call
me in
them
She asked
says,
"Now I'll
"Now remember,
there're
a shirt--a
things?--peticoat,
me what
take
What kind
of
M:
The dress
was a gray
The shoes
size
shoe,
some more
dress
shirt--and
drawers,
you to
J:
front.
gold
your
girls
I told
her.
room.
She
in
room.
your
was it?
was Oxfords,
dress.
It
buttoned
and the
stockins
down
was
black.
hair
So,
she
for
you.
I said,
She
says,
says
"I
now,
can
"All
"One of these
girls
will
comb your
comb it."
right."
So,
I had
4
pretty,
shoulder-
Mabel
Page
Hampton
length
hair,
so
I didn't
So we comes
that
door--I
the
but
I heard
She
it
says,
"Miss
now.
I can't
right
heard
So,
that.
a door.
should,
door.
tell
to
mind
remember
the
now I don't.
a voice
saying,
-----what
she
d5
is
says,
"I
on
She knocked
on
"What
that
got
number
do you want?"
woman's
name?
a new girl
Can't
that's
comin'
in."
( Pause
takes
So,
M:
The house,
me to
the
So,
tall,
thirty
they
yard
or
three
was with
She was
tape)
J:
houses--two
that
in
me.
like
.
take
you
yes,
where
says,
after
good-lookin',
years
is
gone.
Now,
row of
little
a whole
Now,
it
wasn't
her,
it
was this
girl
opened
the
brown-skin
So,
old.
she
you're
a kid.
shoulder
to some more,
got
And one
pressure."
"Well,
house
there's
doors.
It wasn't
house--?
the
she
supervisor
man's
wife.
an overseer.
she
we've
this
the
put
calling
the
woman--1
guess
her
out.
hand
And she
Come on in.
what
to
them
hollered
by name,
door--I
faced
he was about
She says,
"Oh,
over
she
her
says,
''Look
here."
of
if
the
she
girls
can't,
says,
I'll
"I hope
take
5
care
she
a
can
of her.''
stand
the
Mabel
Hampton
I said
Page
[to
What am I going
pay
for
handed
this
to
over.
to
You see
do?"
woman gave
her
from
Here's
"What
I'm
now,
in
for
it
somebody's
now.
going
to
outside,
your
time
me the
cot."
is
bundle
and the
It's
a cot
girl
you
of
clothes
says,
slept
that
was
"Come on
I
on.
And she
*
it?"
~
(.,
I
ain't
take
"Oh my god,
this.
So,
asks,
myself],
d6
says,
goin'
care
"What
to
of
bed
the
now."
your
I says,
"Mabel.
I looked
for?
to
'cause
it
know the
time
for?
You
make no difference,
I
kid.**
"What's
"Mabel
do you want
name?"
"
what?"
at
her,
[It's]
Mabel."
"Alright,
if
she
"What
did
don't
want
you want
to
tell
to
me,
know my name
don't
tell
me.
*
Although
Mabel did use the pronouns
"I" and "She" as
indicated
in order
to outline
the dialogue
between
her and
her cell
mate,
it's
not absolutely
clear
who's saying
what.
Is Mabel really
getting
tough with this
woman right
off in
order
to make a point?
Or is it actually
the other
woman
who's getting
bossy?
(SA)
** The confusion
continues
as above.
I left
this
out
of quotes
because
it's
not clear
whether
it's
Mabel's
musings
on her own ability
to care for herself,
or whether
it's
part
of what could possibly
be her cell
mate's
refusal
to tell
her the time.
(SA)
6
Mabel
Hampton
She
says,
nightgown
you'll
for
you.
"Now, there's
went in
[sounds
there
like
She
funny
bathroom.
with
"Here
lookin'
bed
"Now,
so,
d7
"Here's
a
nightgown.
Go in
there
She says,
and undress."
on--she
throwed
So,
I put
I
me a pair
them
on [and]
my clothes.
is
like
don't
your
bed."
that.
Well,
So,
I sat
cry,
because
the
back
of
the
"Oh,
what
is
goin'
The woman in
you're
on the
and undressed.
Put
'used'
(used what?)]
(inaudible)--
say,
She says,
me later."
I put
the
come on out
tell
Page
I never
seen
down on the
nobody's
gonna
room says,
a
bed.
hurt
"No,
not
you."
while
here."
So,
course,
I said,
I said
"Oh,"
to
happen?"
So,
of
my prayers.
one
of the
hollered,
"She's
holy
and
sanctimonious."
told
called
I said,
"Well,
what
did
that
So,
the
one that
you
she
was an innocent"--what
mean?"
was taking
care
of me said,
did
something.
7
I said
she
call
to
myself.
"Sure,
me?
she
I
Mabel
Hampton
She
said,
"No,
So,
"Hmmm, you must
I didn't
she
accustomed
else
Page
said,
to
to
know her
"All
saying
do but
say
knowed
me,
right.
Go to
my prayers,
and nobody
and when
I woke up,
said
the
011tside."*
outside."*
my prayers.
bothered
her
d8
bed."
I was
so I didn't
So,
know nothin'
I fell
a word to
?sleep.
me.
sun was shining
Nobody
I fell
asleep,
beautifully
in
there--beautifully.
She say,
and get
"It's
dressed
early.
now.
and pulled
off
bathroom.
We dressed
beautiful
There
["said
huge
this
out
We go for
cotton
there.
There
And then
I heard
something.
The girl
diningroom
and eat."
So,
diningroom.
*
she
took
said,
me by the
The diningroom
Again,
have been that
sanctimonious"
or it could be
to
get
up and wash up
breakfast."
nightgown
and we come out
was--it
was just
nice.
it can't
be squared,"
log.
You have
and washed
in the
was chairs
I
or
So,
I got
up in the
yard.
sitting
up
It
was
around.
saw a canopy spread"]
(inaudible)--the
something
like
"Now, we have
hand,
a bell
to
go down in the
and we went
was about
as
long
or
on down to
as from
the
here
confusion
as to who is talking.
It could
women who said Mabel was "holy and
talking
with the woman taking
care of Mabel,
Mabel's
guardian
talking
with Mabel.
(SA)
8
fl,.
Mabel
to
I
Hampton
that
were
wasn't
I didn't
up there--bookstore.
together.
There
They
I
store
women were
all.
Page
they
M:
White
set
So,
They were
have
White
kind
"We have
"Boy,
Always
had
first
of
women.
been
young
girls.
and black
they
were.
place
is
this?"
and--I'll
sausages-,
good
never
eggs,
forget
it--
and potatoes.
coffee,
rolls
I don't
food.
beds
to
see
they
you
she
says,
sit
around
smile."
had.
know where
So,
and
day was the
Did you see
Not then,
So later
talk.
good
it
Oh,
had
come from,
"And then
and talk."
they
not
on--about
The would
same thing
any
then,
signs
all
we go back
So that
of
over
ended
agiin.
lesbians?
no.
two or three
whisper.
days
So I said
9
of--everybody
to
that
good
but
day.
J:
M:
it's
did.
The second
would
them
they?
me down by her,
we ate:
make up our
the
count
"Sure!"
She says,
they
and
that?"
I says,
food.
were
what
says,
couldn't
could
and black.
"Well,
girls
attention.
What color
had--she
You like
any
been--I
the
or twenty.
They
J:
she
have
fifteen
girls.
them
So I thought,
So,
about
young
pay
J
Must
And all
d9
girl,
and
Mabel
Hampton
"Who are
they
She
dykes
Page
talkin'
laughed.
don't
I said,
wouldn't
So,
She
say
nothin'.
she
says,
girls'
but
club
they
at
and
you
Well,
Yeah,
of
girls--in
a girls'
thinking
said,
'dykes'?"
I
club?"
what
when
said,
"Yes,"
thought
belonged
to
they
wasn't--I
but
or
not.
But
Jersey
City.
you
you
did
said
"Do you
what
were
that
it
'Yes'?
belong
you
was
there."
to
a
thinking?
an ordinary
by myself
for
fifth
three
day,
"Hello,
a club?
don't
I had
I says,
I was wonderin'.
says,
Those
time.
M:
And he
to
mean by
me lateF
you
I just
You had
the
she
When she
J:
during
mind.
do there?"
tell
thinking?
lesbians
So,
here
You'll
were
couple
any
talk."
you
that
does
you
What were
M:
creeps
Uhrnmm. "
J:
club?"
those
"You belong
right.
What were
hell
"What'd
"Nothing,
"All
the
"Yeah.
said,
pay
anything."
"What
I says,
about?"
"Don't
mean
d10
"Here
years.
So,
he come up,
this
little
girl."
10
messed
I'm
the
know whether
around
going
with
to
a
be up
man come up--
same white
He says,
fellow.
"You want
to
Mabel
,
Hampton
write
any
Page
letters
dll
home?"
1
I says,
"No."
"You ain't
"No."
about
bed
got
I said,
[Maud] .
and
had
Sunday.
nobody
[Maud]
and
I had
time.
says,
I says,
write
"I' 11 think
a nice
She
to
about
it."
been
friends.
So the
"You want
to?"
wife,
to
go to
So I thought
she
We went
to
come up on a
church?"
"Uhugh."
"What
are
I got
to
you:
Methodist,
Catholic,
Presbyterian
or
what?"
says,
say
around
the
room.
I
"Methodist."
She
says,
"Are
I says,
"I
So,
she
says,
She
says,
everything.
go to
"Are
says,
So then
in
"You want
the
to
go for
your
go with
yes.
did.
yard
them
I think
clothes
about
it."
to
I'll
nice
pressed
and
me."
take
take
And there
and
when
right."
I have
and he was very
out
of
you going
"Oh,
she
sure.
all
"All
You can
She
there,
you
"Now,
I says,
set
I looked
something.
you."
was a Methodist
too.
looked
me?"
minister
Then we come on back.
at
a walk?"
11
the
flowers.
She says,
We
Mabel
Hampton
I says,
She
Page
"No,
says,
I says,
She
"Why?
says,
me.?
"
in
the
"All
says,
I looked
and
I says,
"No,
says,
nice--and
you
say.
and
She took
"Any of
the
I said,
"What
outside
walk."
you talk?"
to
right,
"Well,
also
her
another--I
was--but
I will
my hand
girls
of
start
an9
up here
is
she
you
we sat
She
she
all
the
and
walkin'
guided
you
trying
the
women 1-ikes
husband."
don't
I says,
So,
to
."
me
like?"
to
white
dig
out
of
woman down
office."
She
or
nothing
walkin'.
She
want
Why don't
"I have
So we started
along.
I don't
d12
We went
know whether
on this
it
thing.
her
'cause
on down.
was a pool
She
says,
she
Some place
or
"Can you
what
it
swim?"
"No."
says,
"Neither
says,
I.
can
"You know,
We'll
you don't
sit
here
know me.
and talk."
My name is
Ruth."
I says,
She
haven't
says,
got
Well,
didn't
they
"Yeah."
want
would
"I know you.
your
I'm
last
not
anybody
I still
Your
name is
Mabel.
her
my last
name because
name."
gonna
to
do or what
tell
know I was there.
they
would
say.
12
I didn't
I
know what
I 11 e you
1
c
be
IDF bed
d
eep
you
oo
o
ahe
e
O
ah, ..
1DF bed
If
nt
il
Mabel
Hampton
So she
says,
I says,
She
have
"Well,
"You play
says,
we'll
play
Black
"We have
Jack
money?
I says,
"No,
I don't
time
pick
up any money
to
was away.
The children
myself.
Only
She
all
Page
the
three
days,
says,
"So that's
children
and
"Someday
somebody's
I said,
"I wish
She
says,
"No,
So,
we had
because
in
camp,
all
what
send
I could
that's
got
the
that
I didn't
people
I work
I was there
for
by
happened.
Norris
up here."
her
money?"
I said
and
Judge
them
gonna
money."
any money."
and
sends
for
Jack."
Have you
have
was
Black
d14
do.
She
She takes
said,
somewhere."
right
now.
alright.
God will
take
care
of
her."
cream
for
dessert.
there
and
sat
"Yeah,
She
like
to
have
It
down.
I like
says,
"I
a supper--a
was
So,
lovely
summertime,
she
says,
supper
with
and we went
"I like
ice
back
out
you.
you too."
don't
know whether
you
like
me the
way I
you.
I
says,
She
bed
and
she
kissed
"No,
said
she
I guess
no more
took
me.
me in
I wasn't
not."
[until]
her
And I sat
time
bed
to
and held
go to
there.
bed.
me in her
I was much smaller
so big.
14
We went
arms
to
and
than
I
rr
I
Mabel
Hampton
am now.
Four
Page
I wore
shoe.
So,
a Twelve
dress.
she
me in her
held
Very
smallAr.
arms,
dl5
I wore
and
I went
a
to
sleep.
J:
Say the
M:
I told
many people
It's
M:
Okay,
She put
know.
Well,
next
up your
take
notice.
off.
This
says,
"That's
stinkin'
it
was goin'
"Yeah,
to
from
just
up to
me.
Okay.
me like
go this
to
way,
do,
you
in half.
Ellen
the
used
and
to
that
she'd
kisses"--to
one to
the
me questions,
This
like
I like
kiss
Then,
this
a month
myself,
I
I have
or two.
would
or pump her--ask
way.
a
one."
nobody
they
to
one was paired
girls.
me goodbye.
other,
I began
two go this
they
for
same thing.
girls.
those
girls.
on like
the
off.
I b'lieve
like
we come to
so
that--
was about
one was paired
her
want
sleep.
room and talk
went
it
It's
day--everyday
they
I don't
you.
arm around
"None of your
So,
Break
funny.
I like
ask
my business.
somewhere,
And,
says,
one
Listen,
it's
This
idea
So,
and
her
Mabel.
truth.
up to
And I went
Clean
the
knowin'
J:
truth,
her
So,
If
she
I said,
else.
try
to
pump me
questions.
She
damn business."
the
point
where
15
the
girls
come and make
Mabel
Hampton
wine.
1
let
And,
them
give
say
act.
were
she
by the
pool."
you
things
love
out
to
I know,
It's
got
it
says,
It
on.
me and
was a big,
she
In about
big,
says,
three
says,
one will
with
oldtimers.
so-and-so
down
name?
more
back
to
papers
you,
and
months.
made dresses
out
comin'
but
are
her.
We made
in
the
One day,
for
yard,
in my ear
me,
and
I sittin'
you know--go
she
had
something.
her
I
."
you,
I feel
huge
I kiss
was nice!
Eighteen
girl
"What
"No,
she
little
I may have
me and was whispering
is
the
brings
and
kiss
I was sittin'
I says,
So,
goin'
was his
then
she
yard--this
"Somebody
"No,"
out.
but
up,
went
church.
wouldn't
name on them.
So,
She
It
his
time.
dl6
it."
"I'm
so long,
of times.
time
of
girl
They was really
me,
find
been
we wound
arm around
out
see.
to
this
know what
And Mr.--what
M:
So,
a long
don't
her
say
We'll
the
for
oldtimers,
a couple
in
says,
leave
would
that
So,
you
J:
know.
a ball.
wine
and
So,
And so,
I had
me any
up here,
They
I!
oh boy,
"We're
or
Page
a spiritualist?"
there's
a man comin'
up here."
place.
"Alright,"
seconds,
and
the
she
removed
man appeared.
16
her
arm.
And he says,
Mabel
"Is
Hampton
a girl
Page
here
I said,
named
"Are
and
name?
he's
"Well
"The
been
down there.
take
as
*
of his
I says,
J:
wants
comin'
up here
stayed
there
house.
you
from
here
to
And t~ere
his
she
quite
Living
in their
M:
In the
house.
of course,
get
house,
and take
you
Eighty-Sixth
he wanted
"You think
me to
you can
do it?"
do it."
J:
And,
to
the
that
house?
clean
said
What's
you down in
He says,
I can
not
as
house.
his
j..t?
right."
walk
house.
Clean
for
to
The big
"Yeah,
wife
all
far
M: Yeah,
And his
do you call
supervisor
Now, it's
maybe.
care
the"--what
after
So we had
Street
you Mabel?"
"Uhugh. "
He says,
man's
Hampton?"
"Yes."
He says,
I says,
Mabel
d17
I'd
house.
was very
six
glad.
So there--I
months.
house.
They took
go up and
me to
see
the
live
girls,
in their
and the
girls-J:
angry?
What was the
Did they
*
About
six
feel
reaction
you were
blocks?
with
(SA)
17
of the
them?
girls?
Were they
I
Mabel
Hampton
Page
M:
They
didn't
I was different
figured
seasoned
women.
And this
house
cops
and
everything
then
they
would
there.
run
of
or
that's
anything
found
out
me in.
the
money.
city,
she
see]
and
anything.
girls
give
that?
J:
Did anybody
M:
No.
Wait
told
us.
have
her
men
And
money.
mammy up
was a QT.
into
up
old,
prostitutes.
Everything
divided
they
things.
And they
Oh, you made money's
said
like
They were
different
[to
her
Because
and
come in there
No.
butches
and
Studs?
(inaudible)-a minute.
I come back
to
Not that
New York
time.
and went
See,
back.
Then
I
everything.
J:
I didn't
M:
I went back.
know you went
I told
back.
you.
This
woman turned
I was too-J:
you were
M:
investigator
in
visit
See.
in a way.
woman.
M:
after
me.
by another
Were the
J:
them
a house
come up to
But nobody
fems
from
had
is
She made lots
mad at
They was prostitutes
One woman up there
So,
get
d18
Alright.
in that
Yeah,
came up.
Tell
house
okay.
the
for
story
six
After
that's
to
18
along.
months.
I was there
She talked
going
this
for
woman.
awhile,
And then
the
1
Mabel
she
Hampton
says,
"Mabel,
New York.
was
Page
"You can't
picked
t o.?
you
want
go to
Morningside
Is
anybody
there.
there
to
go back
New York
up at--in
I
back
would
'cause
Jersey?"--not
that's
See,
Avenue.
else
to
d19
you
you know you
where
you
can't
go
could
go
"
I says,
name.
I says,
"I
And she
three
can
you
can
said,
out--"--you
So,
yes."
"Oh,
So,
go and
"Well,
know what
sure
days
write
out
J:
Like
her."
with
investigate
went
can
you
knows
and
She
find
say
says,
them
call
do you
woman's
you."
..and I would
again.
What
II
this
her
she
away,
was back
out--
so that
stay
I'll
she
she
write
go--I'll
I called
I mean--"That
enough,
later,
I forget,
about
"Well,
you
things
that
go somewhere?
a pass.
M: Yeah.
She
tomorrow.
But
you're
So,
her
says,
I'll
and
lesbian.
And she
not
in
"Now,
you
can
take
you
and
to
the
go to
meantime,
friendly.
And she had her
I was free
me that,
to
come to
take
you to
this
leave
woman's
house.
New York."
I had
met
Just
I became
told
go tomorrow.
You can
a white
ordinarily.
girlfriend
anytime
woman there,
that
I wanted
That's
New York.
19
But
lived
to
she
and
was a
in New York.
come to
New York,
how I met Gladys
Mabel
Hampton
Bently
and
you her
the
nothing
"I
So,
this
"Oh,
She
women.
address."
She
I can."
other
out
in
says,
"You give
"I'll
remember
take
come
says,
"I'll
weeks
too."
give
no papers
it?"
or
Okay .
in.
see
you when
I
address,
and
a whLte
friend
I'll
give
it
else."
two
friends:
I was so happy.
one
and
six
year
Okay,
or
so this
tongue--she
seven
says,
I says,
So,
and
got
"Well,
been
"Well,
of the
three.
on the
end
come down to
out,"
see
there
of my
and
"come to
you."
come that
the
mornin'
colored
at
eight
girl
and
the
white
I was gone.
people.
says,
out
a colored
made me stay
gettin'
I kissed
me.
and
I've
had
and
"
I know the
white
She
I'll
investigator
"goodbye,"
Now,
months
"Now, you're
"Alright.
this
They
woman says--right
me some time.
those
six
says,
"Can you
you
me your
Oh,
girl
what
girl
friend.
o'clock
says,
she
d20
I says.
So now I had
see
So,
You don't
with
colored
comin'
yeah,"
someone
the
think
I'm
come out.
of
You go out
out.
II
to
rest
name and
I says,
•
Page
colored
girl
Be very
careful
around
your
said
them
life
to
"Be careful
of them."
mostly
isn't
20
me,
all
over
of my life."
with
yet."
of
Mabel
Page
Hampton
Okay,
so we were
York--come
on to
(shrilling)
that
you
bitch
get
We come on to
And this
seen
in
New
woman says,
you
trouble?"
in
such
a long
She reminded
time.
me of
there.
Anita
Bryant.
pointing
Say her
pointing
name because
you're
a car.
I haven't
know who you're
bitch's
in
City.
yourself
over
J:
won't
Jersey
"Mabel,
Why did
going
d21
to.
name because
You have
women who hear
this
people
to
won't
say
that
know what
to.
M: Okay.
J:
Anita
M:
Just
So she
ashamed
Bryant.
reminds
me of Anita
when I got
says,
there,
Bryant.
"You should
have
been
of yourself."
So,
I says,
"I want
She says,
"Yeah,
Now there
was
a job. "
I got
a job
for
you..
Up on the
hill."
once
before,
took
me up to
you very
and
a colored
she
the
woman up there
was gay.
woman's
much.
She talks
She says,
"You want
That's
house.
all
She says,
nice.
to
live
there?"
I says , "No . "
21
that
I had met
I wanted.
"Yeah,
They
I like
GJ
Mabel
Page
Hampton
(End
'
I
Side
M [in
had
all
says,
to
there.
them
"I'm
see
So,
so glad
to
"Thank
he had
she
see
And your
I says,
I will
And I had
girls.
you.
So,
1).
mid-sentence]:
some furniture
d22
been
things
are
van.
I had
with
her.
I
"Oh,
Mabel,"
she
I know my husband
would
love
well
She used
a movin'
friendly
come in there,
you.
you."
stand."
taken
to
care
save
of."
my life.
The name was Brown--Maud
Brown.
So she--"Come
over
and had
Miss
for
over
something
to
"Yes,
and
whatever
work
I did.
this
I says,
something
say,
I'll
woman say,
to
eat."
I went
eat.
Wathchamacallit
I says,
So,
and have
"You're
workin'
I always
pay you.
"You don't
"No."
I think
she
J:
This
was the
M:
Hugh?
J:
The gay woman?
M:
No, no,
now.
want
had--was
got
to
stay."
it
one child
good pay
or two
children?
I'm
gay woman.
Who--?
talkin'
about
22
this
woman I went
to
Mabel
Page
Hampton
work
for.
Now,
was very
I don't
nice.
other--(bangs)
her.
her--on
Pitts
Well,
together,
nationality
She was a good-lookin',
And down from
see
know what
and
another
was her
her
I,
and
we talked
she
blonde
together,
together,
She
this
And I went
name.
we slept
was.
woman.
street--lived
last
d23
down to
and we ate
and we laughed
together.
-
So,
she
says,
"Now, what
I ain't
11
gonna
Now there's
uncle.
have
says,
I says,
She
I says,
"Well,
"No,
And I told
it
with
white
to
"That's
tell
She says,
I says,
Pitts,
break
it
off
put
and
me,
and my
it
together.
it
to
alright."
money?"
money
in the
bank."
it?"
"This
white
"You're
woman gave
alright.
You've
me,
been
and
I
messin'
people."
I says,
started
··
things."
get
in the bank."
"oh,"
she says.
do?"
do with
I'm
her
to
to
I got
you
going
lot
"You need
"Where'd
put
to
"How's
says,
you
do nothing.
a whole
You'll
She
are
her
nothing
"Yes,
new.
something
"You still
and
is
I'll
I
and
I said,
a fresh
always
23
said,
"Skip
"Skip
woman."
be that."
it."
it."
I
Mabel
Hampton
She
it,
says,
"Well,
all
right."
She says,
"I
d24
love
you for
II
So time
white
that
went
on.
woman appeared
she
girl--a
to
Page
in
a gray
the
car--open
The woman that
J:
That
you met
M:
That
I met in Bedford--contacted
went
with.
And that
woman--another
girl.
And they
[palled]
J:
had
in
The
car.
M:
palled
woman?
I left.
date,
Which
they
white
to
J:
white
it--but
Two weeks
The woman from-the
whore
house.
Bedford.
the
girl
woman
had
around--wasn't
a
nothing
around.
So they
were
lesbians
and they
was lesbians
now.
were
prostitutes?
M: Everything
J:
And also
prostitutes?
M: And prostitutes
J:
who were
Lesbian
lesbians,
see.
I mean,
prostitutes.
lesbian
women
prostitutes.
M: Lesbian
And this
knew what
and
white
women who were
woman that
I was because
J:
Was she
M:
Yes.
had
prostitutes.
this
whore
house--she
she-a lesbian?
She had
talked
24
to
me and questioned
me
Mabel
Hampton
about
half
what
of
Page
I did,
where
New York,
So she
M:
So,
to
she
came to
her
police
see
pull
And she
knew
force.
you up--.
me.
up at
like
So,
the
the
when Miss-door,
she
idea.
didn't
Was a good-
So,
woman.
the
She didn't
say.
who I knew.
came and picked
her--seen
know what
lookin'
includint
J:
whatchacall
I went,
d25
she
asked
was Mabel
almost),
"yes.
Hampton--Miss
Hampton--there.
She
says
(whining
"May I see
her."
"You certainly
Someone
want
to
may.
see
I come on down.
I threw
one.
'cause
them
welcomin'
So,
she
says,
"Oh,
around
her
asses
"You want
"uhmhum."
down.
Called
my life.
stupid
Mabel-1-1-1.
my God.
neck
didn't
So you're
the
and welcomed
know nothin'
her-about
anybody.
I says,
Flew
you."
I said,
my arms
other
Babel-1-1-1,
the
to
I went
go for
upstairs
woman by name--can't
And she--"Well,
a drive?"
and
think
got
of
you know,
you don't
is
the
my jacket.
it
now to
go to
New
York."
I said,
"If
New York
around
25
corner,
then
I'm
save
Mabel
goin'
Page
Hampton
d26
."
So we gets
York.
Went to
and those
this
in
the
car
and
a cabaret,
people,
goes
straight
and that's
on over
to
how I met Ethel
New
Waters
you know.
J:
We'll
M:
I met so many people
woman that
talk
about
was the
them.
head
that
of this
this
girl
house
knew,
knew.
and
They was
friends.
J:
So she
cabaret?--the
name of
M:
Wait
of
think
can't
later
come back
I
Okay,
so she
M:
Yeah,
because
was friends,
one's
come in
until
New Jersey,
about
took
she
twelve
Jersey,
and
or one
Oh,
white
o"clock,
26
meeting
Gladys
Bently?
a year
good.
for
this
knew the
that.
about
I met her
you to
and the
like
her?
then.
you see--both
from
end
it.
New York
J:
them
Newark,
to
Small's
of my tongue
Talk
meet
her
to
though.
to
to
meet
I didn't
M:
when
come back
the
it was?
I know I went
on the
I will
now.
it
now.
it's
to--oh,
you remember
where
Did you get
Bently.
Gladys
it?--or
We'll
J:
you--do
a minute
I went
Paradise.
I
took
cabaret--?
friends.
All
and black.
black
ones
And they'd
and then
of
White
come in from
stay
they'd
there
go home.
Mabel
Hampton
And,
naturally,
just
as
Page
I knew them
this
new little
So,
J:
you to
all.
But
they
d27
didn't
know m
girl.
what
happened
that
t?
nig
So,
she
too
New York--.
M: Hugh?
J:
York,
and
Continue
you went
M:
drank
to
"Miss
was
Mabel,
Miss
M bel,
"Down to
"To th
erry'?"
I says,
0
ook
h
mn
on
nd
y
0
the
on
I
on back.
oop w itin
hes
I think
tha
that's
te
tr
Wher~ did
you
o?"
rible.
ible-
you
ferry.•·
0
Bu
N w York.
w
erry
cross.
e
ne d no
idn'
d.
r
y
C
i
r brou
y
h
r.
was a
h r
s,
mma
s
l
m
brought
very
worn n
0
she
's
no--y
r n
fo
it
his
0
N w
"Y s. •·
w sn'
n
e
T
e girls.
I s ys,
he
I think
Mabel,
whi
you to
me some wine.
sitting
Puss
with
She took
She gave
o'clock,
Pickle
Miss
Now,
story.
Did nothing.
By twelve
You know,
ing ou
your
a cabaret--.
Yeah.
some wine.
for me.
Miss Mabel,
with
H
r
y
Mabel
Hampton
she
didn't
idea
of
mind
them
Now,
cut
Page
that
them
takin'
J:
me away with
have
to
work.
coming
good
hear
and
the
this
turned
want
to
in
asked
like
the
You've
got
I finds
her
from
me,
the
miss
me.
anything.
So,
Now
-
didn't
treat
me
And this
mornings
the
writes
daughter--her
could
some times
and
mornings
when
I didn't
for,
didn't
mind
I had
a thing.
and
in
So,
she
with
she
a very,
her
stay
a letter
and
with
Bedford.
in two weeks
stayed
up there
and
very,
very
Salem,
she
asks
North
was so glad
me could
she
name Margaret--send
me,
like
Winston
aunt--and
daughter's
to
for
I had been
myself
my aunt--young
she
to
on).
me for.
woman I worked
see
back
microphone.
her--especially
to
that.
woman--she
she
come
contact
possibly
there,
she'd
come--I
up there
not
off
into
And the
Margaret
that
didn't
time.
Carolina.
send
she
off.
now I don't
up there
Then
to
but
in between
whatever
I,
take
her
turned
anyhow,
her
and
it
talk
So,
I paid
girl
is
to
M:
white
Cut
Okay,
just--remember
right.
happened
now.
(Tape
Maud,
me.
something
off
takin'
d28
and
I did
that.
I said
time,
with
28
I could
nothing
the
me,
do what
I
tell
her
not
about
girl
and
Bedford--
arrived
I got
up
a room
Mabel
Hampton
right
with
now--but
"Now,
Page
Miss--I
I got
listen,
night."
can't
think
a room with
Margaret,
staying
out
stay
out
all
all
trouble.
woman's
And I told
cannot
Margaret
I says,
"Margaret,
night.
because
not
supposed
I will
to
name right
her,
go and
me that
night
I'm
her.
you
The woman told
of the
d29
stay
I said,
out
all
was going
and
you cannot
go and
go nowhere
get
myself
but
stay
go and
in
right
here."
the
So,
she
says,
So,
I took
girls--I
and
to
So,
very
like
Coney
one night,
to--let's
see,
up to--I
or
house,
and we stayed
come on back.
I says,
early."
all
dressed--she
So,
white
girl
been
out
go around--go
don't
in
day until
six
back,
in
We went
New York
it
or
her
and we
was Gladys
We went
seven
to
and we
wasn't
to
her
o'Clock.
dressed
Margaret
around
29
day.
got
I told
'til
me home early--
know if
made love--we
come in
New York.
the
was an actress.
funny.
They would
brought
half
with
who had
out.
is
We were
when I gets
"Now that's
She didn't
Island
was--I
It
went
Coney
we go.
it
she'd
of my friends
and they
the
someplace.
Then we got
So,
that,
where'd
Bently
So,
up a couple
we'd
think
"
then.
Island.
early--because
went
easy
called
daughters
sneak
it
"Alright.
be home
one o'clock.
home.
up
Mabel
Hampton
I said,
"Oh,
the
Page
"Margaret,
I called
where
some of
were
the
you?
girls,
Where
and
d30
were
we just
you?"
went
to
movies."
I said,
She
"You goes
to
"Yeah,
they
says,
"Alright,
have
to
send
So,
the
movies
on Sundays?"
wanted
to
it
happen
let
go to
the
movie."
again
'cause
and,
while
I'll
home."
morning,
I went
called
me on the
girl
your
don't
you back
next
white
seen
but
the
onto
work
phone
and
says,
working,
"Mabel,
I
niece.
"Seen
who?"
"Yes,"
she
I said,
She
said,
"Are
says,
"I
you
seen
your
niece
in
a cabaret."
sure?"
"Yes,
and
"Alright.
"
some more
women was there
with
her."
I says,
So,
"Where
when
were
She
you
says,
I said,
"Oh,
get
they
time,
a'hold
of her
next
morning,
I says,
yesterday?"
"Mabel,
"Where
I said,
one more
I did
do the
live
went
friends
downtown
"Alright."
you
I just
visit
some friends."
live?"
here."
I said,
go home to
to
"If
your
30
you go to
mother
'cause
Coney
Island
I can't
be
Mabel
Hampton
worryin'
Page
over
think--was
that.]
your
her
and
troubles
and mine
name Mitchell?
she'll
No.
be telling
too.
It
somebody
d31
And Miss----
was something
~hat
I'm
[I
like
steering
you
wrong."
"No,
I won't
Alright,
and
get
says,
I'm
go."
she
me in
didn't
the
car
"Alright."
gonna
that
So,
when the
-
afternoon,
She says,
white
I told
"Now, Aunt,
girl
her.
I don't
come
So,
she
know what
do."
I says,
over
go.
"You see,
I can't
make love
to
her
and watch
you too."
"So,"
she
says,
So,
I asked
her
when
where
"I' 11 see
she
she
got
what
dressed
happens."
to
go,
about
six
o'clock,
goin'.
"Downtown."
So,
gray
into
into
New York.
because
So,
there
she
Coney
was in
of that,
She followed
car.
tunnel
her
instead
Island.
Coney
I said,
her
See,
wasn't
didn't
the
call
So,
white
right
girl
straight
she
could
as many cars
me then.
then
followed
she
Island.
"Okay."
31
on through
easily
keep
as there
She waited
called
her
in her
the
up with
are
today.
until
they
got
me that
she
and told
,
Mabel
Hampton
So,
she
Page
says,
I said,
because
"What
shall
"No because
I'm
I do?
she
packin'
her
says,
"Alright.
gonna
grip
and
Keep tabs
keep
tabs
send1n'
d32
on her?"
on herself
her
home in the
mornin'."
So she
"
She
says,
"When am I gonna
see
you."
I said,
So,
for
her
says,
"Tomorrow
sho'
to
'nough,
stayin'
out
Margaret's
She came
in
grip
'round
and waited
I
two o'clock.
show good?"
said,
"Yeah,
I says,
"
I packed
come in.
"Was the
She
night.
"Don't
there
it
was alright.
tell
with
I missed
me you missed
the
boys
the
and with
the
bus.
the
bus."
You were
girls
in
Coney
Island."
"Who you had
me watched
I says,
I didn't
yourself
your
"No,
watched."
mother.
I have
go home tomorrow
So,
couldn't
that
called
I packed
take
it
I had her,
the
So,
white
have
I says,
money.
mornin'
the
I could
you watched.
"Alright,
I '11
send
You had
you can
go home to
you back
home.
You
."
rest
because,
girl
[by]?"
of her
you
get
and
see,
things.
if these
in trouble.
she
come over
32
She cried,
So,
people
that
and got
I
but
found
night
me and
out
I
...
Mabel
Hampton
Margaret
to
Page
take
and
Margaret's
them
down to
Winston-Salem,
So,
then
So,
the
just
I says,
"Well,
girl
you
"The
do you
"Let
think
doing."
So,
door,
and
we pulls
away.
myself
through,
Mabel,
your
"Now,
you
house--she
on it,
I gets
and
in
the
I didn't
get
sleepin'
So,
we made
love,
we talked,
we drank,
dressed,
in
the
w iting
up for
"That
investigator
morning
me.
says.
woman,
I know it.
says,
"You got
She
runnin'
says,
you what
front
of
back
until
two
the
white
we had
to
girl.
to
City.
a nerve."
·•And I'm
the
It
My friend
was
She
says,
Bum, bum,
a·ound
with
going
ps
out
the
door
and went
33
o Maud.
bum,
a white
to
t 11
er.
, I st
I
something
Jersey
you was doin'.
"You are
"
you what
in
with
come back
knew what
she
tell
when we come back.
She
b m, bum,"
I'll
car
I was
and
I' 11 tell
doing?"
'cause
n
to
through."
woman in
says,
of
me sleep
I'm
w s three
on back
we went
make."
She
think
Okay.
her
"You ain't
you
"Uhugh."
I says,
eat,
sent
and
"Yeah?"
What
o'clock
everything,
now I'm
says,
move that
says,
do.
and
says,
She
I says,
and
train
Carolina.
white
every
She
the
North
beginning."
watches
clothes
d33
I says,
Mabel
Page
Hampton
"Maud,
I've
room.
Can your
She
hand
got
a few
husband
says,
"Yes,
of
take
furniture
and
stuff
will
anything
in
that
it?"
my husband
take
that
you
out."
"I'm
"Fine."
So,
leaving
here
She
says,
I says,
getting
goin'
up the
white
girl,
tomorrow
mornin'
for
Bedford
"Well,
girl!
you
and
What
realize,
I don't
intend
I says,
''Tomorrow
mornin'
at
"Oh,
right,
I'll
comin',
and
"She
"You've
b
"No.
I'm old
h
o,
o'cloc
nd
pu
1
i
I
m i
who she's
ain't
up
got
I
loves
got
nobody
six
Hills."
talkin'
about?"
I'm
not
there."
you
goin'?"
o'clock."
be there--'cause
~
don't
I'm
know I'm
up there."
u
there."
months.
You say
she
you."
bre
alk up
d
r g --o
z .
So Maud's
"Al 1 righ
nd pick
his
eight
I says,
there."
I can
s y
stay
and
old,
When are
almost
Sh
now,
right.
my sweetie.
n goin'
nobody
I sys,
see
see
I says,
got
all
and
I'll
"All
you
getting
to
she
says,
says,
are
I'm
"Well,"
up there
ain't
I called
"My God,
young,
She
C
pieces
d34
h t
stor
3
husb
nd
ew
hin
., I had
g
ous
wh
m
C
n
V
r
Y
ov r
Mabel
Hampton
So,
Page
she
come down,
"Where
"I'm
goin'
to
do you
think
Miss--"
I says,
"What
name,
but
I can't
Well,
think.
to
get
anyhow,
She can
You knew me for
runnin'
She
I didn't
tell
her
in them
on that
nothin'
but
part
And at
get
it.
the
a cord
end
After
tassels
act
woman's
what
she
I don't
belong
turn
and
the
care
please.
I don't
folks
that
belong
to
nobody.
me in?"
like
what
cabaretin'
you do,
."
cabaretin'?"
type."
I'd
met
all
the
big
shots
[sic]
in
few months.
me.
sleeves,
around
of the
rope,
you pull
so
it,
It
and
the
material.
and
I had that
I was dressing.
short
of the
the
she
you would
was made for
with
goin'?"
Okay."
I dressed--then
it,
I don't
you're
right.
hem in
pull
"'cause
"All
dress
"Yes.
When you
white
I says,
So,
my life!
"How do you know I'm
says,
New York
from
with
what's
save
you.
and
I would.
around
I says,
to
years,
"Certainly
to
glory,
anything
belong
you're
New York."
I says,
think
I don't
her.
it
do you think
d35
was grey;
it
had
it
string--it
waist,
and the
You pulled
it
it
had
then
'em on.
[hennah]
you get
And around
35
had
cord
same
a deep
had
was pulled
and made a rope.
tassels.
the
You
tassels.
a part
of the
You
Mabel
Hampton
sleeve
had
there
Page
was--everything
a round
neck,
few back--and
like
I could
But
cap
then
[hennah],
that.
little
and
make
I put
that
on.
says,
"Yes,
ma'am.
So,
says,
"Take
"Thank
Meantime,
and
there
talkin'
to
this
home I was
payed
more
white
women.
So,
looked
than
at
I had
this
of hell.
all
I said,
we took
I put
that
to
New York?"
on the
white
woman
woman--she
around
up--packed
done
with
up--together,
guy.
up with
this
"Bye,
bye."
Then
stoop
And this
be a fall
car,
I see
car.
Maud.
When I
I gave
Maud
gone.
we come right
And,
A
came up on the
with.
danced
grey
says.
on a cap.
I was runnin'
pulled
she
she
this
do was to
And we were
Well,
I lived
girl
this
good.
New York."
woman sittin'
white
"Be careful,"
a kiss.
to
to
me that
attention--that
it
goin'
too
of yourself."
in was tellin'
She had
you're
it
I will."
told
woman that
tassel.
a
a thread
describe
I put
It
that--turn
and
down--a
off
care
was a white
whose
all
I'm
you.
Maud had
stoop,
"So,
like
[hennah],
can't
comin'
(Demonstrates).
a sleeve
but
I says,
So I says,
had
it
a thing
And she
she
it
[hennah],
anyhow,
with
on my head.
so that
was grey.
d36
the
on through
New York
like
a bat
highway.
We took
the
highway,
36
out
we
T
Mabel
took
Hampton
the
time.
low way--oh,
She
there
was
went
right
Didn't
Page
had
brought
some
for
me to
nothin'
on in
even
need
boy--and
'cause
I sung.
We just
sandwiches
do but
she
and
to
no passport.
They
had
a lovely
things.
settle
knew how to
d37
And
back.
go into
didn't
And we
Bedford.
ask
her
no
questions.
She
one
of
went
your
on and
lost
He says,
We told
this
out
here.
him the
story.
You can
stay
I said
are
treat
as
to
long
I had
met
we won't
as
myself,
you
"Here's
here?"
tell
nothin'
about
I just
nothin'.
me right,
a couple
say
says,
man.
doing
home or
want,
"That
She
this
I didn't
woman didn't
"Well,
to
you
back
which
front.
says
Margaret
lady,
He says,
up in
she
what
him this
and
sheeps,"
"Mabel,
Margaret--sendin'
told
pulled
and
I got
lonely,
times,
brought
anything
at
about
and
a good
of
take
man knows
all
me
it.
"
rest.
I need
something.
a
:
rest."
myself.
left.
to
see
at
all.
called
So,
I changed,
I had a cot
in
boy,
what
I was doin'--hear
this
Sunday,
woman called
investigator
they
gave
there.
But,
This
next
and
And some of
they
were
my story.
in--the
and
me a little
told
37
comin'
what
by
women had
up there
Nobody
woman I'd
her
the
cottage
said
lived
just
nothin'
with--
I had done and
Mabel
that
Hampton
Page
I was runnin'
blah,
blah,
blah.
supervisor
So,
up there,
laughed.
They
word.
around
I went
and havin'
and kiss
each
So,
tired.
But
stayed.
with
a girl
and we'd
take
the
said
at
all.
They
wife
didn't
cookin'
girls
showed
me how to
as the
about
say
their
see.
the
girl
all
go walkin'
other
woman,
have
as
long
I hadn't
up there,
other
just
as
her
in the
and they'd
of got
just
as soon
I wanted,
ready
And this
hug
a ball.
I kind
got
with
make wine.
'cause
white
I was
girl
and see
woods,
and
see.
all
go back
know--I
just
would
her
And then
to
New
York.
So,
or
one
something,
said,
"Pooh,
New York."
back
to
day,
something--!
although
pooh,
So,
New York
a
meals,
and we would
to me--I'd
stay
So,
lord,
a month,
anything
ready.
come up and bring
this
house,
me I could
goin'
to
blah,
Him and his
and we would
nobody
I got
back
their
I was there
went
it
nothin'
of the
other,
leave
she'd
say
We was drunk
He told
friend,
reported
blah,
time.
one
after
men and blah,
and he laughed.
on cleanin'
And then,
wine.
she
didn't
a good
We drank
with
d38
I was lovin'
pooh,
I told
don't
pooh,
the
pooh.
supervisor
soon.
38
a girl
I want
that
up there,
to
I'd
got
lonely
but
go back
to
like
go
to
I
Mabel
Hampton
Page
He said,
fifteen
"All
minutes,
I said,
right.
you
"Oh,
When you
can
I can
get
get
ready,
d39
teJ.l
me.
In
ready."
get
ready
in
about
two or three
minutes."
He laughed.
So,
little
we was
short
sudden,
pants.
somebody
investigator.
head
back
This
is
you've
been
and
the
<loin'
"I
jail.
time,
and
all
of a
recognize
of me.
down.
on
I say,
this
I throwed
my
"Oh, my God.
of
a long
me you was here?
time
and
lookin'
for
didn't
And
tell
I see
you.
me.
you've
places."
a bad
girl
even
knew you wasn't."
He's
almost
when
I started
She says,
dead.
They'll
"But
kill
out."
that
him soon.
"yeah."
the
his
so hot
many people
front
you tell
New York
"I wasn't
I says,
up--send
over
right
says,
She's
I had
I didn't
in
up and
nothin'.
a good
wall.
right
her
a hell
all
I said,
in
stood
"Why didn't
here
runnin'
guy's
doin'
investigator."
been
She
come up the
looked
says,
<loin'
up there
We was havin'
She
the
She
I'm
sittin'
one who told
wife
up--for
herself
'cause
up she
shouldn't
me he'd
money,
even
you
she's
have
39
send
see.
his
mother
And Judgie
done
told
sent
up--and
wasn't
on too--sent
they
were
too
on
Mabel
her
Hampton
Page
tail.
So,
after
that
she
'(inaudible)"--called
down there.
to
d40
We had
And so,
I'll
she
been
tell
there's
"Come on down to
him by his
He laughed,
drink.
You've
said,
for
girl,
you what
I'm
That's
all
I wanted
more.
I'd
be
in
ice
to
you.
New York.
something
in my debt.
is
you'll
So,
and
She
This
I did
And he went
of hours.
do.
morning,
hear.
cream
no longer
I like
going
to
us
"You're
and
Tuesday
name too.
a couple
now,
a good
Monday.
he gave
a ball
says
first
be
not
"Now,
Sunday.
Then
in New York."
want
that's
says,
to
hear
any
why I waited
to
leave.
So,
Monday morning,
"goodbye,"
and
And they
went
[Muriel]
says,
in here
they
I says,
"I
guess
So,
the
says,
"Now,
young
woman.
toast
"I never
the
all
me.
on down there
and turn
women likes
they
got
I was high
and waved
knew a girl
place
up and they
upside
bid
me
as a Georgia
and waved
who--a
down."
at
pine.
me.
woman--could
She says,
come
"These
you.
"I
like
'em all.
you're
car
to
me.
right."
pulls
I hope
They belong
up.
the
you all
have
She said,
"Treat
investigator
learned
everybody
40
got
a lesson
right,
out.
from
She
this
and you'll
Mabel
get
Page
Hampton
treated
yourself."
So we get
Oh boy,
all
in
didn't
them
the
car
We had
something
to
And,
where
wanna
you
eat.
three
take
the
me,
'cause
find
a job.
she
So,
anything--!
that
it
on back.
bridge
a w--and
she
and
We raced.
the
stopped
was Tuesday.
white
girl
had
to
a week
went
tunnel
and
So,
very
good,
I had
nice
lookin'
there
and
a couple
end
care
of
had
a job
she
and
gave
me
says,
at
me where
that
"Now,
of
So,
other
off
that's
to
I had
to
keep
me to
do
I wasn't
End of
41
I couldn't
bad
happened
places--
here.
woman and
and
[Alhambra].
what
was
with
white
business,
nothing
the
she
apartment
of the
I made believe.
hair.
cuts
at
was the
later--1
but
told
See,
take
a got
dance
(Tape
had
you know.
And that
rooms
See,
we went
live?"
Of course,
to
and
we go through
things.
going
d41
transcript).
lookin'.
I went
I.
.,.
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON
(M)*
Interviewer:
Joan
J:
taping.
Nestle
--Story.
This
Now remember,
you
is
the
second
your
last
words
were:
left
your
uncle,
and
Greenwich
Village,
went
the
subway
M:
A new world.
into
(J)
and
came out
Later
in
day
of
the
you
left
a new world--you
a new world.
I learned
it
was Grove
Street.
*
The second
side of this
tape ends with the beginning
of Mabel's
story
of Bedford
Hills.
Hence,
it precedes
the
transcript
whose page numbers
are preceded
by the letter
e.
Also,
Joan indicates
that
it is the second
in a series
of
tapes--the
first
of which evidently
ended with Mabel's
escape
to Jersey
City from Greenwich
Village.
It seems this
particular
tape has not yet been transcribed,
although
the
first
transcript,
indicated
by page numbers with no
preceding
letters,
does include
part
of this
story.
If this
first
tape is found,
its
order
in the series
will
be
indicated
in a footnote
on the first
page.
(SA)
.1
II
Mabel
the
Hampton
J:
Where?
M:
In Jersey--I
time.
wonder
Page
And I didn't
what
I was
gonna
they
put
can
Well,
or
read
So,
to
white
other
to
I say .
us.
Tell
children--
to
the
sixth--grade,
Because,
if
you do,
cross.
I don't
school.
let
Don't
know anything.
to
walk.
was Grove
people.
*
grade.
I began
twenty
- -------·--·-
I began
at
but
know if
I went
to
I was in the
*
school.
And I
and write.
That
walk
City
old.
you up against
sixth--five
walk.
anything-
I went
would
why I tell
M: That's
hear
Then
go.
you again?
were
years
Eight
children
say--what
to
was Jersey
on eight.
M: Goin'
J:
know it
know where
How old
.._T:
could
didn't
f2
Now, the
Street.
description
To get
to
I seen
blocks
or more.
I seen
a few colored
where
the
people.
----- ------- --·------------·--------------·
f3he couldn't
However,
the
accounts.
of where
I was,
people
White
2
I had
walkin'-people.
----
be eight
and in the sixth
or even
"eight
years
old" seems consistent
(SA)
I
fifth
with
Mabel
Hampton
And I came
Jersey
to
City
a hospital,
cops
walking
I found
later
f3
out
was
the
[H]hospital.*
I walked
of
which
Page
past
that
I kept
and
I wouldn't
and
things.
and
walking
walkin'.
ask
nobody
I could--I
and
I seen
must
a coup"!.e
I kept
anything.
have
walked
about
an
-
Then,
hour.
straight
or
all
of
going
a sudden--it
on down the
was
a straight
walk--
I didn't
street.
turn
no curners
nothin'.
All
of
a sudden,
I was on the
left.
Yes,
there,
I seen
b•::!tween
was
onl:. later.
didn't
or
children
the
ages
And,
have
So,
went
says,
they
any
time
I go~s
something.
and
in.
-------
Sh
lefthand
in
of
to
side
of
the
eight,
and
playin',
I sits
ten
playin',
I didn't
play.
to
And
I f igurcd
as
know what
minutes,
to
where
a white
girl
all
playin',
down on something
and
my
street.
The children
a few
and
to
liku
a be1ch
then
I got
was
swingin'
So,
me and
she
she
put
m
pushed
in
the
swing,
me.
-- -
So,
She
---
th
o ly pu lie hospital
in Jers
h Jers y City Medical
C nter.
If this
i~,
in
it is ~o
ed on Summit
v u , m
label
ens,
J urnal S uar
th·n
G v
1 tiv
t
(
)
Today,
3
-
I
anJ
I 5aid
1
do.
swing?'
"Yes."
pushed
I looked
a playground.
seven,
were
and
there
on over
I says,
a noise
I sit
"You wanna
swung.
I heard
tJ
up
Mabel
Page
Hampton
myself,
"She's
She
nice."
came over
I says,
I
11
me here
"I
and
to
told
goin'
from.
me,
says,
aunt
"Your
aunt
me,
to
you hungry?"
I says,
"Uhugh."
So,
call
him
"Listen,
take
So,
he
her
go home to
have
get
to
Well,
was.
that's
time
Maybe
what
I came
a sudden
she
wait
here
her."
a little
says
his
get
for
more time."
think
I think
got
me.
to
it
She
was her
brother--
name was Tony.
this
kid
to
So,
her·--find
she
her
home."
says,
says,
her
brought
come back."
it
of
at?"
yet?"
brother--!
"Tony."
we've
and
must
her
she
time
live
my aunt
pushed
all
me to
give
"Are
called
she
come back
"We'll
she
until
So,
She told
do you
now 'cause
because
that.
"No.
'Where
know what
be out
hasn't
says,
She
that
She pushed
So I remember
She
she
here
had
I says,
says,
.stay
I don't
school--school
says,
know right
me to
fast.
She
me.
don't
"Alright."
was
f4
"Alright.
I' 11 see
"I'm
going
home.
been
after
six
something
to
you go after
the cop."
When I heard the word
what
It's
_getting
o'clock.
put
on her
"cop",
So,
do."
dark."
she
says,
and a sandwich,
I didn't
A
I can
like
that
See,
"I'll
and
idea.
The Mabel Hampton Tapes
February 25, 1999
These tapes were made in the years 1976-1988 approxi1nately.For the majority of the tapes,
the setting was the home of Joan Nestle, Deborah Edel and the Lesbian Herstory Archives which
was also the home ofMabel Hampton from 1986-1989', the time o,fher death. After Lillian
F'oster's death in 1978, Ms. Hampton frequently stayed at the archives, having her own key and
using it as a base for her work in t.he conununity and her many trips to Atlantic City. In 1987, Ms.
Hampton moved in with Lee Hurl.sonand Joan Nestle and the archives, having grown too ill to
keep her apartment in the Bronx. The tape with Lillian Foster was made in 1976 at the Bronx
h,omeof Ms. Hampton and Ms. Fost•er.
Several more tapes exist and are housed at the archives that have not been transcribed and
several other tapes have been made by other people and are in their possession. There are also
several video tapes of Ms. Hampton and many snapshots. The Lesbian Herstory Archives is the
home of the Mabel Hampton Special Collection. (LHEF, Inc., POB 1258, _ .·, 10116, ph 718768-3953, fax 718-768-4663. Joan Nestle ·canbe reached directly at 212-873-3765 or e-mail
Joannestle@aol.com} A complete bibliography of the archives' holdings of the life of Mabel
Hampton is in process.)
1
The tapes were transcribed by Sara Atatimur, a blind woman who was an activist in both the
lesbian community and the disabled community. She was ,a stu,dentat Rutgers when she was killed
in a traffic accident in 1989. The Open Meadows Foundation mad.ethe transcriptions possible
with a gr.antof 1200.00 in 1986.
I started making these tapes in the mid 70s when I knew very little about oral history f01·mal
procedures. Thus at times I ask stupid questions, am too intrusive and too abrupt in beginnings
, and endings. But these tapes are also the story of our relationship with all its complexities.
Please give credit to this resource in the following way: The Mabel Hampton Special
Collection/LesbianHerstory Archives/Lesbian Herstory Educational Foundation, Inc.
Joan Nestle
•
•
(!)
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON (M)
Joan Nestle
(J)
Deb £1:iel
(D)
Interviewer:
Interviewer:
J:
You were
seven?
D:
No, you
remember
J:
You remember
back
M:
Sure,
I was around
grandmother.
tell
you,
mother
My mother
the
reason
Carolina.
chickens,
to
turkeys--all
five
to--gramma
kinds
five
and
with
over
another
to
all
had
white
my
here
old.
Now, I
was:
my
younger
in Winston-Salem,
and colored
in
vegetables,
of things--(dog
1
six.
mother's
school
pigs,
six.
story.
me and--my
had
and
I was a month
is
I went
The school
And I used
to
switch
raised
me.
to
when
Now that
my grandmother
sister--they--raised
there.
died
I have
was poisoned.
So,
North
I do.
back
barks).
Libby,
L
Mabel
ain't
it
Page
Hampton
nobody
after
(Dog continues
you!
to
2
bark).
Oh,
no,
came back.
where
J:
Chickens?
M:
Chickens,
there
it's
all
turkeys.
And we lived
was--something--"What
on one
call
a house
a house
where
floor?"
J:
Like
M:
No,
a railroad
No,
houses--something
like
was a very,
very
school,
I went
and
do you
in
nice
No,
flat?
No,
that--the
all
to
the
colonial
around.*
go to
And it
church,
Sunday
school.
One time,
they
vaccinated
it.
So gramma
whipped
call
it--suet
from
like
rooms
I used
house.
to
It's
No.
me,
me and
the
put
chimney
and
gramma
some of
didn't
like
that--what
on my arm and
do you
made me stay
in.
Most
I liked
about
and on each
side
fun
around,
last
dozen
runnin'
one--and
or more
Everybody
*
was--across--in
was people
that
with
you know.
birthday
she
for
means
the
children.
I had
went
us,
huntin'
and
a ranch
We had
must
for
of
us
so much
once--the
have
we was out
house.
2
back
a birthday
I took--it
children--and
was lookin'
Perhaps
it
been
a
grapes.
in
(SA)
somebody's
Mabel
Hampton
orchard
lookin'
for
I see
apples.
some apples,
So,
I didn't
There
died
remember
found
it
and
I heard
she
So,
gave
was my boyfriend.
school
every
Let
field
big
Sunday
and
out
whipped,
And he grew
He had--I
can't
and
in
I was
he was adopted
lessons.
come,
I got
I got
thing.
it,
boy,
stealin'
us girls.
whole
about
him violin
He'd
me see,
is
night,
of
the
this
And,
and he'd
take
New York
by a white
I would
me to
say
he
Sunday
mornin'
what
else
from us--we
were
(or haul or hole)
hall.
now it
in
those--
(Laughs).
me.
when he was twenty-one.
happened.
woman,
boy
all
3
and--what's
up on a fence,
us that
because
one
what--but
when it
clamb
woman caught
they
mind
And grapes
now,
the
was only
up--he
grapes.
myself
and
of there.
but
Page
happened
near
there?
a railroad
I went
known as a teachers'
in
to
Across
the
This
big,
station.
school,
and the
college.
Then,
school
it
is--
was very
pretty.
We'd
was kind
had
of
an aunt
clothes
school.
long.
from
Grarnrna would
And she'd
in New York,
up there
graduated
years
go to
to
one
me.
small--I
put
nice
and this
But
she
fix
dresses
aunt
wouldn't
guess
my hair--my
would
old.
3
on me 'cause
send
six
I
fine
come up.
I was about
hair
After
or
seven
I
Habel
Page
Hampton
One day--I
he chicken
th
re
got
coop
an<l steal
today.
And she
w nt
in
in
h
chickens
n
nd out
silv
chair
y,_
I
i
n'
know.
I
w s
so
I
y
w
h
ro
l
om n
n'
to
into
go in
and
I love
eggs
would
give
me some,
and
gramrna
said,
'Who
got
mad at
one
and
the
chickens
dropped
the--it
out
of--and
I was
was
was
small
born--my
could
put
me in
ramrna
once,
she
was
and
shook
me out
me
hough.
I'd
imagine,
She
was
something,
small.
h
chair
on
he
.
r rnrna was
ro
ha
busy
makin'
that
enough
to
get
was
big
s
and
coffee
the
working
pilla
very
a pint
'til
a door
head
you
bother
OU
dern
they
and
or
n
day,
because--!
pot.
bed
in
or
yard.
th
I don't
and
forgo
covers.
And
harmin'
nic
h
lookin'
oo.
0
0
And I used
me go
her,
and
h
n
eggs.
made
for
there
small.
the
aunt
eggs
go in
r dollar
other
those
there
of
up--rny
steal
So,
I w s so
0
and
there?"
m_ bin'
hooked
4
pro
SC
0
s
0
0
r
C
s
00
0
0
0
s--
. d,
m
h
C
0
I
Mabel
*
death.
Page
Hampton
I hollered--I
stage.
That
on me like
growlin'
that.
she
live
It
a little
she
take
at--there
take
and
good
meat.
bacon
store--all
a mile
nothin'
like
So,
tellin'
now.
love
to
chicken
M:
But=they
school--Teachers'
across
is
eggs
cook
pretty
College,
Cf. with the story
she says that
Santa Claus
line.
(SA)
to
top
store--or
like
her,
where
floor.
that
those
eggs
bacon.
They
get
my plate--and
gramma's
we
she'd
Girl,
smell
to
things
some chicken.
was
and
wasn't
I never
chicken.
good.
good
It's
door
See?
and
like
street
in
was
help
on the
could
I used
were
the
would
and
you
cook
Chicken
take
you,
eat.
the
rushin'
and
next
up there.
could
they
between--up
were
things
hogs
stuff
meat
gramma
J:
I lived
*
the
we got
to
the
and
and
in
me off
my gramma--it
kill
and we'd
They
I just
be able
meat
away.
chicken!--oooh,
would
her
and
took
it.
come around
house
I'm
Claus
later,
would
was a yard
was a private
gramma
take
while
men would
would
Santa
couldn't
time--and
the
and
old
that--I
I guess,
Christmas
hollered--and
5
chickens
[from
known
on the
came in
5
where]
[as]
there,
you know.
I went
now.
to
And I had--
LHA video
of Mabel wherein
before
she got to say her
Mabel
the
children
Miss
Page
Hampton
van
I played
She had
Owen.
So,
was married.
lot
she
was--the
a house,
schoolteacher's
not
was very
far
nice
to
from
name was
ours,
and
She taught
me.
she
me a
of things.
One day--one
day
with
6
I didn't
cold
Monday~-I
get
up so early--I
or what--and
So,
I spring
she
had
the
people
the
doctor,
phone
much for
in the
I kept
she
this
never
at
at
said
her.
me and
my hair,
So,
went
see
I didn't
never
that
was up and
too
much;
gramma.
know what
at
I kept
to
they
she
watching
Gramma had
6
gramma,
called
So then
we had
Never
cared
she
And
And my
stroke.
in
combin'
the
bed.
talk,
was wrong
my
It
And,
couldn't
to
too
came.
everything.
her.
do then.
kitchen.
came,
it--was
layin'
a
So I called
anyhow,
forget
gramma
I looked
combin'
to
had
I had
the
floor.
come up.
So,
she
in
a stroke.
to
if
kitchen:
and
I knew something
through
she
had
nice.
at
the
walk,
aunt
aunt--I'll
looking
She looked
she
The sun
to
on the
down the
over
remember
crash
went
one week after
I looked
don't
layin'
She wasn't
morning.
a sudden,
was
get
on something--one
a terrific
bed,
said
to
younger
and
she
doctor
lived
the
door,
her.
mamma's
hair,
of
a stroke,
New York
gramma
I heard
out
next
be skippin'
was
all
of
see.
with
her.
And when my aunt
got
gramma
gone
in
the
bed.
away.
I was a big
girl,
goin'
Mabel
Page
Hampton
on eight
York,
years
so she
of
called
of that
ended
and got
everything.
the
funeral
Now, you
tell
the
end of
So,
I couldn't
come back
to
here.
got
So,
came back--I
to
I called
younger
sister,
never
I hadn't
been
was fresh;
with
knew.
then
all
used
mamma grew
the
chickens
Of course,
besides,
you know.
So,
to
So,
across
They
just
her
my sister,
doctor
they
had
why,
cannot
read
tell.
you tell.
it
had
eatin'
out
they
and
You
that's
street,
but
train
spoiled,
food
like
I guess
she
took
So,
took
with
See,
'cause
our
what
I
me a
food
they
did
I never
boys--the
everythin'.
was my little
7
So,
everything,
the
tale
was my
gave
that
to
the
All
that,
she
around
had
sister.
that.
garden.
there
she
you know.
like
in the
she
Now, there's
the
all
said
younger
it--on
was runnin'
the
the
That's
what
and
husband.
and things
I guess
all
go back.
they
a dern
her
my aunt,
she
to
give
together
forget
it
got
in here.
my mother's
sandwich--liver--and
So,
New
do it.
things
New York
come from
passed.
and
something
don't
had
came and
had
something
you want.
my aunt
aunt
she
there's
people
come in
other
She said
aunt
mamma had
my aunt
there's
anything
other
her
And the
see,
it.
the
told
So,
all.
now,
can
aunt's
and
who writes,
Of course,
over
So,
that.
and
everybody
age.
7
friends,
and
men,
®
Mabel
Hampton
Dollbaby
and
then
Page
Pattie
Anna Mae Thomas,.
was sweet,
always
she
had
runnin'
Still
M:
What do you mean?
J:
Where
did
M:
They
lived
Still
in
until
after
my aunt
gets
I wouldn't
eat
we came
that
too
street
from
I was
liver
liver
on the
me because
eat
remember
He looked
was an East
Indian.
He's
out
of
train
comin'
I wouldn't
it.
eat
So,
how we came
Station?
train.
it.
when we
in.
I don't
know.
I
well.
Mabel.
wavy hair.
get
on the
I know when a man came up to
is
me in
I don't
the
I wouldn't
can't
He was tall,
George.
the
in Pennsylvania
anyhow,
"This
the
eating
mad at
it,
New York--!
remember
Uncle
and
she
grarnma--
So,
niece."
Boy,
girl.
And her
Winston-Salem.
I was eatin'
said,
And
live?
across
Yeah,
But
she
they
M:
Whether
was a sweet
a girl.
down south?
When you were
to
and
way down here.
J:
Okay,
can't
braids
she
J:
Winston-Salem
gets
Oh,
was a boy
around.
Winston-Salem.
in.
It
Harris.
8
Mabel
dark,
like
Hampton.
and had
he was
And she
says,
a minister."
the
Indian
8
This
most
or
is
and
my
beautifullest
something.
"Now Mabel,
Because
my aunt
they
He
this
is
knew
I
your
Mabel
Page
Hampton
wanted
names
those
and
people
was quite
all
that
there--they
taught
a few colored
the
white
that.
So,
I knew right
So,
girls.
he says,
May,
from
she'll
didn't
wrong
is
old."
I didn't
like
him.
when they're
good
And
me--there
taught
divide
she?"
years
school.
taught
and
be eight
foreigners,
in
They
there.
"How old
was a minister.
Those
in
I was
us--they
They
taught
"In
because
9
us
the
like
work
a little
bit
And I think
I didn't
they
like
of
she
like
everything.
says,
him.
He was a handsome
lookin',
they're
He
man.
good
lookin'.
So,
he says,
when he gets
do I say
piano
to
it
the
now--I
was.
house,
So,
and that's
where
sing,
she
side.
go into
door,
the
But he fixed
on Sunday.
What's
one
was at
his
at.
So,
church
You come in,
and there
in
to
do."
me sleep
in
room where
52 West
Eight
to
he found
the
was something
up like
a church
when it
And,
after
he preached,
mind?
Go ahead.
9
the
basement,
out
that
I
The kitchen
steps,
you
a livingroom.
come time
he would--
the--how
Street--
the
front.
like
Now,
I think
you go down four
it
on your
J:
the
let
a lot
go down a few steps
lived
so he had
was one one
in
place
and you
we got
my aunt
slept
Now, this
downtown.
could
"Come on now,
to
preach
Mabel
Hampton
M:
what's
(Evidently
on her
After
Page
J:
No,
M:
She wants
J:
Well,
M:
it
out
all
about
a pet),
You know
mind?
go ahead.
he preached
take
speaking
10
to
she's
get
up on my lap.
going
to
have
to
not.
Go ahead.
the--
After
down.
he would
I had
preach,
to
wash
then
I would
dishes,
and
have
I never
to
went
anywhere.
So,
until
then,
five
alive.
very
they
years
See,
I can't
some of those
forget
that
papers
one word
rape
that's
name her
was all
part
yet.
the
word.
got
to
as
me is
still
name but
part.
it's
Up
She was
written
So then,
I live.
I could
teach
me to
And that
word
to
tell
shoe
off
swollen
So,
school.
another
school.
to
his
me in
in
home.
he was trying
mad and took
to
liked
long
it.
My mouth
never
as
grasp
face.
the
going
tried
one night,
and he got
My aunt
woman who taught
I got
And she
I couldn't
And,
the
quite
I started
word.
but
ago,
up.
and you know--oh,
nice.
So,
fixed
like
I think
10
I'll
not
remember
remember
was
that
word,
"went"--w-e-n-t.
me about
and beat
that.
never
this
me all
We didn't
I remembered
it,
"went",
in
the
come
but
I
Mabel
So,
said
he--my
to
myself,
me sleep
where
lay
in
aunt
went
"I've
got
bed.
In there
coal
down there.
out,
it
nothing
somebody
life,
gave
that
looked
and
right
out
me,
to
Eighth
at,
I went
in
another
and
I walked,
ground,
That
in
and
the
woman put
something
down,
wasn't
I'm
early--about
So,
it
was a dress--
call--a
dress
on.
And I walked
may come to
was a turnin'
to
walk
around
Don't
I come to
I call
point
in
a ring
it--a
I goes
down there,
and
of the
to
me.
three
story.
It
o'clock.
11
come
I was
I didn't
in
the
down there.
and
I went
was early
it
And I walked
thing
was gain'
my
and
where
fret.
me--
in
some more,
a thing--now,
and people
ahead
I
jumper
I see
in there.
and a woman said
too
that.
When I recognized
this--as
made me
of
happened--it
direction.
So,
you
let
place
down and
tired
I
I walked.
right
Street.
subway.
Now, wait,
a blanket
I started
sidewalk,
a coal--a
jumper
That
finally
about
was the
and
me.
He wouldn't
had
in--what
this
I walked
back
know nothing
with
me a nickel.
to
here."
I got
11
And he raped
a skirt--no,
arms
So,
day.
they
know how that
nickel.
like
leave
on but
I walked
I don't
to
day,
your
And I went
So,
one
he put
this
you put
I walked
out
at--and
So,
with
had,
dress.
and
the
you put
went
and
Page
Hampton
and
enough--it
And she
says,
sat
this
Mabel
Page
Hampton
"aren't
you Miss
somebody,
she
"little
girl?
you doin'
down here?"
evidently,
She
to
What are
this
says,
"Here's
Harlem."
the
and,
when the
where
in
know what
a park.
had
go back
to
things
to
That
City.
not
do.
Sounds
always
her.
to
to
like
Were you
M:
No,
Now, to
I seen
the
"
scared?
angel
that
and have
place
And he would
was my aunt.
with
ta
and
of
direct
it's
you
feelin'?
anything,
Joan.
I wasn't
on me and
his
was as
crazy
*
I come to
so--
mad with
And she
didn't
finally
me.
him pull
get
get
New York,
children--I
'cause
scared
in
all
I come upstairs
What were
a guardian
I'm
me,
people
was not
Street.
tale
was
on in
*
and walked,
I never
I went
down.
out,
a fairy
down stairs,
I sat
playin'
I walked
Come back
and
Grove
use
J:
me.
I goes
Now, we was not--we
Jersey
I seen--I
"All
"Yes."
uptown.
there,
Street.
man says,
name,
So,
in
nickels
Eighth
come out.
So,
her
I said,
You go back
come up,
train
When the
we were
the
So,
a lot.
know this.
put
people
away
a nickel.
away from
up and
ran
I don't
seen
gettin'
girl
called
12
wife
I
goin'
try
to
to
do
and beat
as he was.
According
to her stories
on the video,
the
pricipitating
event
for Mabel leaving
her aunt's
house was
an incident
at school
after
which she was threatened
with a
whipping,
not the rape by her uncle.
(SA)
12
Mabel
So,
walked
all
Page
Hampton
I goes
into
and walked,
these
playin'
on in
looks
"Corne on.
Get
at
I says,
at
for
"Mabel."
knew.
I could
swing."
makes
So it
swingin'.
your
So,
So,
been
schooled
English
swing,
So,
it
to
she
went
get
girl
says,
"Okay."
to
had
I says,
"Yes."
to
I goes
me,
at?"
is
I
your
name?"
enough,
I
says,
"Come on,
like
it.
It
We went
on
alright.
comes
you cold?"
she
"Don't
and
or
So,
I. says,
dark,
or brother
I'm
out
me and
she
tall
girl
another
something.
So,
She says,
you a sandwich
still
says,
"Where
with
she
"Wait
and bring
there
her
says,
and
"Aren't
I'll
a minute.
you
is
something
to
on.
So while
sandwich,
where
must
good.
says
live
I'd
seen
So,
girl
do you
I
of the
swingin'.
an Italian
Where
all
Naturally,
some uncle
put
swings
Street.
I gets--I
and black,
"What
And she
go home and get
So,
says,
the
people."
park.
She
and
began
was Grove
a second.
swim."
else
this
swing.
on the
my head
something
them.
speak
I got
I seen
This
time--the
on the
her
park.
playin'--white
a good
and
looked
and
children
havin'
this
13
and
you're
have
she
was gone--she
I started
goin'
been
eatin'
because
in her
teens.
comes
it.
my brother
I says,
13
back
with
the
She says,
"Now, tell
will
you.
"Well,
take
my aunt
me
She
told
me
Mabel
to
Hampton
stay
Page
here
"Where're
"Well,
until
you
I'll
go after
to
see
I'll
and
I sit
"Gee,
on me.
Now,
So,
woman--whoever
to
she
name was Bessy
her
twenties,
from?
shopping."
Well,
like
"we"--and
seen
this
boy
seen
them
before--seen
Bessy
says,
other
girl--she
she
put
down the
from
and
the
said--"if
around
cop
me a sandwich
me.
and
the
cop
was mo'
would
I
put
lucky
that.
a
to
with
So she
there
me than
her.
says,
her
until
I says,
Her
in
"Where
the
same
she
went
looked
down the
about
four
I knew that
was
a cop
because
the
walk
around,
you home."
woman comes,
14
story.
some
of
take
you
"New York."
street--!
cops
the
woman--somethin',
I told
sit
come or
distance
them
I'll
the
She had
it
a woman back
you from?"
comin'
"Come,
give
"Tony,
aunt."
sandwich.
and
be here?"
me to
we looked
street-no
the
She was a young
told
"Where
find
because
brings
somethin'
"Hy aunt
says,
You go after
the
She
So,
she
White.
She
says,
there.
got.
How you come to
I said,
ate
says,
So she
way.
Hood cape
worry
boy was because
She
brother.
I can
and
I sat
I began
her
nice.
me.
"New York."
if
there
she's
get
go this
me a Red Riding
thought,
cape
She calls
and
and
brought
I says,
way,
go that
So,
come and
from?"
alright."
you
the
she
14.
you
And she
bring
blocks
I'd
know.
said
her
I
So,
to
to
the
my
Mabel
I live
house.
says,
"All
So,
if
Page
Hampton
the
on Seedler
cop
got
get
that
beat
very
me in back
throw
out
So,
badly
of the
words,
and
a girl
go up the
with,
silent.
she
steps.
says,
"Are
must
have
been
So,
sing,
and
eat
alright.
New York.
and the
that
got
"My aunt
from
was peckin'
And he used
he took
the
ends
her
people
on
to
used
to
money.
her
house,
right
there.
and
she
her
out."
lost.
Help
left
me there."
says,
Now,
In other
my age
right
in,
was a private
On the
it
one
And the
you hungry?"
side
kids
straight
on down,
could
because
eat.
so much.
and
"Yes,
almost
Now, it's
doing
we
on the
all--marvelous.
ma'am."
eggs--rolls--you
I ate
house,
was Italians;
I says,
eggs--three
hungry
I always
I can't
to
I knew that,
he always
me to
was Italians.
me eggs--scrambled
that
to
When we walked
gave
bread.
She
City.
See.
front
side
me back
me around.
that's
I knew everything
Alright.
So,
court
and dimes,
continue
I kept
other
Jersey
me, because
because
woman carried
"Mamma, here's
to
take
we disappeared.Now
And this
I got
got
slappin'
nickels
Alright?
she
me, he would
my backside--knockin',
take
That's
right."
I was so glad
And I'd
Street."
15
a whole
me very
She
know,
loaf
of
bad
See.
She says--and
I have
15
this
little
red
cape
I
Mabel
on and this
and,
Page
Hampton
as
blue
I went
in,
where
I come in
lookin'
woman.
she
was.
I guess
me.
You stay
with
said,
"We'll
glad
of that.
So,
name.
quiet
to
for
and
went
up your
They don't
of
"That
of
the
left
is
of
a good
Oh,
some woman.
and
she
looked
just
chair--she's
eight--and
she
says,
with
her,
find
you clothes."
and
"You'll
and
like
kind
of
"You come with
she
bathed
me,
Always
sleep
with
and
talked
me."
I was
yeah!
stayed
I went
with
them.
for
my aunt.
to
school,
The other
I knew
sister
she'd
went
never
you know I knew my
about
me.
I kept
was a very
nice
woman.
a husband,
dress.
were
give
come on in,
I kept
quiet.
years.
White
girls
myself,
hair,
lookin'
as
twenty
"Well,
woman sitting
was admiring
says,
I knew everything
was the
feel
have
See,
says,
me."
Oh,
So, Miss
(sounds
like)
bitchy
hand
five
And she
on about--she
to
up out
upstairs
I went
her.
get
about
I went
softly.
I say
beautiful
she
So,
very
a young
I always
So,
tall,
find
at."
She
dress.
I seen
She had
an angel.
she
jumper
16
And,
all
in
fresh.
a damn what
he wanted
those
days,,
Old men have
you are
you one time.
16
She had
to
the
always
a
do was put
his
women swear
been
or who you are.
fresh.
They
it
Mabel
Hampton
So,
about
Page
I made
lots
a month,
City.
of
they
Now, that
put
ends
friends.
And,
me in
school--Number
that
after
17
I was there
32,
in
Jersey
part.
D:
Was that
family
white
or black?
M:
Hah?
D:
The Smiths--the
M:
What do you mean?
J:
The family
you were
with.
D:
The family
you were
living
Whites,
were
they
white
or
black
black
people
Blacks
or
They were
D:
So,
M:
Their
D:
It
around
there,
yeah.
See,
always
So,
all
like
White.
it
black
was an integrated
neighborhood
then.
together.
so.
and they'd
I never
There
bring
treated
to
that.
Then,
from
32 School
Ellen--she
oh,
were
in
knew about
I went
I told
neighborhood--
name was White.
I guess
been
they
people.
was an integrated
and whites
were
people?
M:
M:
I've
white
with,
food
what
a child
and
I told
Italians
and
people
nice
I met a lot
Ellen--her
was a light,
17
and
all
everything.
Oh,
holler
now.
about
by anybody.
of
girls
and
name was Ellen
brown-skin
woman.
Very
Mabel
Page
Hampton
She was quiet.
strikin'.
piano?--yeah.
her."
"I
go to
"I
like
Mabel.
bed,
used
hand
put
that.
I told
lied,"
was going
to
and carried
stayed,
me off
to
short,
else
and her
happened.
Right,
M:
Her girlfriend
where
name was Miner--the
I told
on him,
believed
him.
So,
in eighth
the
of weeks
see.
next
kill
Well,
was her
You were
name.
day,
took
he
me away
I
make a long
see,
got
of blocks
And I stayed
over
his
him.
I graduated
a long
18
one
And there
to
a couple
happened.
there
he says,
see.
grade.
D:
[and]
girlfriend?
lives
pappa
his
And after--let's
And mamma believed
thing
I
puttin'
she
house.
on out,
last
until
I would
me tight.
So,
me, but
storm.
Now comin'
J:
a couple
see.
come up there.
that
keep
She says,
when
father,
girlfriend's
I weathered
time,
the
"We'll
her."
always
after
and
play
Oh, boy!
he drinks,
her
says,
me and hold
[was]
gets
stick
so he didn't
story
what
the
At night
father
she
she
We' 11 keep
was grand.
because
get
she
arm around
her
So,
mother,
her."
her
Helen
I think--did
Mabel.
That
up my dress.
"So-and-so
told
I' 11 keep
she'd
to
So,
her
she
She says,
like
got
And,
And,
18
time.
down,
there
anger--'cause
Yeah,
from
his
wife
school
with
Mabel
Hampton
Page
M:
What?
D:
You stayed
M:
Yes.
there
And after
They was--this
woman took
Ellen--whenever
pop would
[I]
was scared
barks)
Ford
is
off
shut
she
after
So Ellen
Jersey
not
City.
had white
her
So,
Ellen
to
the
Whites
months.
took
white
sure.
baby
children,
She had
went
away
So after
brother.
(It
this
back
to
again.
I--
(dog
appears
with
the
on.
pregnant
Benny
it.
tape
about
I stayed
and me to
colored
a boy there
They
this
were
me,
always
you rnarry?"--her
Harris,
So,
after
I think
all
this
woman's
were--you
his
was
in
house.
And she
know--I
helped
there.
But
children.
Not too
Ellen
Pop got
Why don't
and they
the
no.
married.
me to
there,
and
Oh,
girl
I forgot
went
And after
the
me.
you marry?
married
house
became
hit
woman.
And he took
time
I run
this
children
in the
do anything,
a family.
a bit).
"Why don't
name--I'm
and--I
Oh,
took--she--and
people.
I met
children,
he would
I met this
her,
time.
I graduated,
in
God sakes.
I--then
and
that
for
a long
19
much happened
two years
there
passed
this
for
about
away from
woman's
children,
by--I
later,
and
can't
19
and
I went
a couple
of
childbirth,
house.
Benny
And she
she
was very
think
of his
back
had
nice.
name now--
Mabel
I got
Page
Hampton
it
wrote
down somewhere.
the
children
and
and
I became
very
guy.
I guess
like
I took--helped
fond
of
each
he was about
She--you
know--she
her
that.
like
other.
nineteen
20
take
So,
And he was
or
in
the
boy
a nice
twenty--something
that.
So,
something
forgotten
don't
about
you
your
find
out
think
you
now I'm
of her
is
stopped).
She got
to
holler
find
It's
something
to
M:
Uhmmm.
I was too
well
what
happened,
says,
"All
"You can
right."
I went
take
to
me,
"Why
and who['re]
out.So,
I said
down.
to
(Dog
everybody?
(Offers
says,
said
wrote
J:
Benny
know about--I'd
come from
gonna
name.
at
I didn't
Something
where
Tape
So,
me--and
I was.
just
Okay,
this--can't
to
how old
parents."
Barks.
said
to
care
eat).
raised
live
of the
to
with
baby
refuse.
this
woman.
and help
her."
So--
J:
You were
going
to
find
out
M:
Find
out
where
I come from.
find
out
who this
who you were,
you
said.
But
I want
bad--my
to
uncle
D:
and
all
'cause
man was that
I know all
that.
treated
me so
of that.
you hadn't
forgotten,
20
really.
You just
I
•
'•
Mabel
were
Pa.ge 2,1
Hampton
keeping
it
silent.
M: I hadn't
forget
'til
this
don't
forget.
day.
forgot
noting!
'cause,
when
There's
you're
nothing
treated
I
bad,
you
t
So,
Okay.
Benny
this
woman's
very
nice.
took
me after
house,
Ellen
and
we both
after
I was
passed,
stayed
and
he
took
me to
The woman was
there.
·•
So,
months,
meantime,
the
baby
passed
there
for
away.
D:
The baby
M:
Yeah.
D:
The order
quite
a number
of
-
also.
So that
that
ended
must
have
right
been
there.
very
upsetting,
•
because
you
M:
were
very
Yeah.
close
So,
to
the
woman,
I stayed
Ellen.
on with
lady.
the
So I
•
said
to
her
like
my mind
one
had
day,
I says,
slipped.
11
I wanna
I wanted
find
out.
Seems
11
to
find
out
everything
So,
the
boy
and
goes
to--
(dog
we went
to?
Orange,
she's
a bad
could.
•
So,
she
told
me,
'"Yeah.···
us money--we
gets
on the
What was the
name of
train
this
place
and
I--she
give.s
barks)
New
Jersey.
(About
after--they
the
don't
dog)
I tell
allow
dogs
you,
in
this
21
house,
girl.
do they?
So,
I
Mabel
Hampton
D
Page
& J:
M:
Yes,
they
I ought
to
22
do.
find
you
a second
home.
l.yt.,
let's
So,
boy
see,
J went
and
to
people
on Eight
or
people,
ten
Jersey.
There,
New York.
So,
Street.
it
come out
that
comes
this
back
home.
minister
Sure
knew George
aunt
was
still
So,
I left
my name
and
later--can't
think
of
who had
the
aunt
here."
is
you
was dead,
my aunt
had
about
moved
to
he was
nine
New
a
enough,
children--she
have
see.
There
But,
I'd
heard
So,
him.
He told
he
and
I
said
he would
me that
my
to
for
And then
woman's
in,
she
name
said,
So !--when
her
for
he stood.
He had
lookin'
the
"Hey."
bought
you.
Winston-Salem.
disappeared
a church,
Mills.
address.
came
I said,
could
killing
start
he find
to
alive.
You see,
they
question
I questioned
And I went
him.
like
to
him by--'cause
find
door,
this
in?
minister.
So,
weeks
this
I began
after
I trailed
Alright.
reverend,
think
now how do I bring
about
to
save
"Mabel,
I walked
a dime.
two
my life
your
in
the
She thought
And I said,
I
"Mister,
I feel
he was wanted
in
no.
from
killed
you.
my aunt
a white
Okay.
New York.
22
that
man.
In them
And he and
her
days,
had
c9
Mabel
Hampton
first
J:
Oh, that's
M:
That's
because
But
l,i ttle.
M:
before
Wait
you didn't
and take
my aunt
And she
in
New York.
could
the
But
I kept
me,
but
I'm
says,
didn't
I don't
she
the
first
,,,,A> ..{I
she
Nobody
Because,
her
money
want
gave
it
to
she
didn't
could
give
to
they
him from
to
mornin',
but
so she
take
one night
house--came
I was asle~p,
could
of bed next
of this.
So,
in
when you were
I knew it.
My gramma didn't
out
knew all
f •
demanded
so much hell,
get
new York
that
came to
and
him away--so
raised
come to
realize
.J..
a minute.
in Winston-Salem,
up talkin'.
she
why they
gramma died,
house
to
New York
we--
D:
to
came to
23
place.
place
to
why they
Page
woke me
come back
Winston-Salem
it
to
them,
to
them,
but
and before
was gone.
have
our
tell
I
Now, I
me,
I knew it.
silent.
my aunt
was sitting
"I thought
you were
very
much alive."
"Why should
want
me."
know what
do 'cause
I'm
I stay?
there
dead."
"Well,
a woman now."
it."
want
I don't
23
you
me.
leave?"
"I'm
I
Your husband
know what
I says,
I says,
She says
"I know you did,
"Why did
You didn't
do about
chair.
I says,
She says,
She says,
to
in the
"There's
to
do.
nothin'
twenty-one."
(3
Mabel
So,
Page
Hampton
she
Well,
says,
"No,
you could
over
have
she
"Yeah,
Orange,
New Jersey.
says,
I won't
with
nobody.
people,
I'll
"
I got
and they're
white
and
have
wanted."
"Yes,
end of the
father?
it.
forget
on the
on the
visits.
She says,
*
"yes.
She says,
"I' 11 come to
live
with
see
my own self
right
here
to
"My mother
and here's
Carolina.
he had.
You may want to check
or Greenville,
NC.
(SA)
to
24
would
anything."
who is
my
father
is
from
brothers,"
and
"And he used
he used
those
to
she
to
come in
brothers?"
I think
if
the
I knew a little
eight
one?"
see
mother
here,
One of
"Which
"With
to
"Okay,
he my father?
live
comin'
She says,
I says,
to
these
want
your
He had
need
your
name?"
in
So,
thing,"
"Now listen
you see,
me?"
you.
I said,
wouldn't
another
"Well,
I says,
"But
see
I says,
with
I grow,"
me.
She said,
visits."
went
"We' re
us?"
I don't
was my mother's
Is
come to
you.
live
how many sisters
come in
you
you.
come and
fine."
North
I done
with
She says,
Greensville*,
eighteen."
a quarter.
"Will
see
I said,
story.
And what
of
says,
lovely
did
only
I was thirty.
I says,
I says,
I says,
me for
come to
come and
Miss
bit
She
"You wouldn't
no,
You're
I thought
talked.
I says,
not.
bought
so much ground,
So,
she
you're
24
meant
she
said
his
Breensboro
I
Mabel
Page
Hampton
name was Joseph.
name is
it
She says,
"Well,
was killed."
I don't
know."
"How?"
woman's
It
must
father."
too."
I says,
"Well,
11
say in'
house,
says,
"Your
she
have
been
you poisoned
says,
11
I didn't
"She
couldn't
the
questions
that
your
that."
your
mother
I
do nothin'
"~ don't
you?"
say
little."
was poisoned."
somebody
"Then
I was
say,
She said,
"Was it
when
"Who
"But
I fired
I said,
She said,
She says,
I knew she
so
know."
that
She
her?"
"I don't
poison.
your
she
so young?"
"I heard
"Who poisoned
She says,
died
I said,
I say,
me in that
at
know,
was in
She says,
sister
"I
for
I says,
her.
it
love
to
was
with
loved
him
him."
"Well,
I'm
it."
So,
and
my mother
you that."
said,
So,
or Joseph.
Rogers."
"How is
told
George
25
see
she
says,
you."
"You comin'
That
Well,
the
her.
"Why' d you talk
something."
people
ended
were
to
that
right
so mad at
so nice
us?"
there.
me and they
to
I knew my name.
(End of Side
see
1).
25
her?"
"Yes,
I' 11 come
She walked
were
I said,
out.
so mad at
"I'm
after
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON (M)
Interviewer:
Interviewer:
Lillian
Foster
is
the
(L)-
See,
J:
This
Joan Nestle
(J)
Deb Adel
(D) E~\
it's
all
microphone.
in here.
Okay,
now,
The tape
here
is
in here.
Is
we go.
it
wound
up?
M: You mean to tell
the
table
talking
J:
No, no.
came in early.
want
you to
and this
me that
thing
sittin'
at
was on!
When you were
You were
we were
cleaning
just
the
now inside.
table,
okay?
And we
Now we
talk.
M:
What am I gonna
D:
You have
M:
But
J:
Yes,
lots
I don't
you do.
of
have
say.
stories
to
tell,
Mabel.
nothing!
Remember
1
the
story
you told
Mabel
about
the
girls'
M:
here
Page
Hampton
and
shoot
M:
experiences
just
talk
a woman about
that
a minute.
Come down
(inaudible).
Now, this
D:
Wait
my
being
tell
a minute.
Now, really,
experiences
could
school?
Now, wait
J:
a2
is
I don't
Well,
bit
some of your
town.
tough.
I've
had
so many
know them.
before
a little
about
you could
about
what
talk
Joan
about
that,
was like
M:
(Laughs).
She gonna
knock
me out
J:
I'd
hear
Mabel--I
as
you
a kid.
now for
fair.
Mabel's
rather
what
want
to
hear
stories.
D:
It'll
get
M:
You didn't
J:
That's
M:
I've
J:
Remember
her
started.
even
prepare
me at
all
for
anything.
I
at
a girls'
school
M:
I'm
not
telling
J:
good,
got
so it
some stories
the
story
and they
You know too
it.
Tell
you told
much.
I'm
the
come spontaneously.
but
thought
That,
about
will
theater.
2
us about--it
you had
I ain't
not
I--
telling.
was
magic?
gonna
tell
it.
Mabel
Hampton
Page
M:
What theater.
J:
Your
. When you were
in the
M:
show,
Oh.
I meets
and
twenty-five.
I seen
she
she
days
Oh,
yeah,
this
take
J:
What year
M:
Oh, that
After
lots
·But
one morning,
get
woman come to
know,
night,
the
sang .
in,
I was
in
this
twenty-four
liked
her
me how to
or
the
minute/
dance,
and
and--
was this?
was around
door
see,
door.
nineteen-eighteen.
And,
we used
take
happened.
the
I
She taught
me to
We'd
we came back,
locked
we couldn't
Well,
when you
She was about
show she'd
of things
one--they
uhmhum.
sweetheart.
the
and
theater
I don't
me home at
was my first
the
woman.
She was nice!
would
in
Village.
And then,
her.
night.·
early
a3
So,
girls
ringing
we couldn't
morning.
pulled
the
the
a fast
door
bell
want
at
places,
next
The locked
without
go out
different
come back
and the
on us.
to
And,
to
on us;
and the
ring
the
I
I
I
bell.
So I decide
go.
So,
I
I was
packed
up the
goin'
home.
next
She didn't
morning,
went
want
back
to
me to
Jersey
I
City
where
:lays
after.
around
there
I
come from,
And she
know'd
and
I
got
came over
to
that
she
a Job there
get
was white
3
me.
and
a couple
And everybody
I was colored.
of
J
Mabel
Hampton
She drove
get
a grey
me, and
she
She took
Island
Page
in
car.
She drove
was the
me to
sweetest
at
night,
thing
Cony Island.
a show there.
come back
a grey
me,
to
that
in the
and bring
come up to
ever
And I danced
You know,
get
car
walked.
over
show.
me back
a4
in
Cony
And she'd
to
Jersey
City.
Now, you don't
for
me.
outfox
want
You so foxy,
you,
see.
it
to
know anymore.
isn't
I know what
L:
Well,
you heard
N:
Okay,
you're
funny,
you after.
me,
listening.
too.
(Tape
cuts).
4
but
You're
I'm
going
too
foxy
to
-
so I heard
you.
But you was in there
Lillian
Foster
wonderful
bit
Page
pair.
I'll
never
regret
it.
But
she's
2
a little
tough.
D:
Where
L:
did
I met her
twenty-second.
whole
life.
don't
want
friends
· little
Death
it
to
will
be the
L:
New York
City.
J:
Remember,
And I had
friends
but
I'm
a ol'
Did you go to
L:
I went
will
end
J:
to
And,
and asked,
than
in
our
that,
I
all
the
in?
stories
was like
all
of
being
over
the
kid.
spoiled
that
clubs
night
lovers
city.
And,
lady,
And,
I'm
and at
then?
still
I
a
that
time
in night
clubs
and things?
clubs.
I really
of me--my
Tell
since
the
kid.
J:
City.
Other
tell
was a spoiled
spoiled
in Atlantic
us.
you would
What it
spoiled
separated
you meet
then?
I always
be the
never
September
end.
did
know.
thirty-two,
separate
What city
you had
in
nineteen
D:
I was a young,
~alked
her?
And we haven't
L:
don't
you meet
life.
story
you know,
enjoyed
my life.
This
my life.
you told
about
2
I lived
is
about
your
the
husband.
And that
woman who
Lillian
Page
Foster
L:
A lady
(inaudible)'s
:5irl.
wife--and
You have
1usband?
~ith
the
And,
key,
at
and
re'll
the
says,
"You is
little
home,
same time,
I said,
if
in
she
a beautiful
'Now, you know,
;aid
walked
[sounds
once--Joe
that
like
Louistro]
a pretty
neat
but
my friend
"There
is
was your
where
come in
my husband."
husband,
3
is
the
She
you wouldn't
it."
do--.
J:
But
L:
I said
J:
You want
Turn
you
it
said
it.
it.
off
to
hear
now.
it
now.
(Tape
3
is
All
shut
right,
off).
then
your
door
said,
have
Lillian
Foster
Page
L:
A lady
(inaudible)'s
girl.
wife--and
You have
husband?
with
the
And,
key,
at
and
we'll
the
says,
"You is
little
home,
same time,
I said,
if
in
she
a beautiful
"Now, you know,
said
walked
[sounds
once--Joe
that
like
Louistro]
a pretty
neat
but
my friend
"There
is
was your
where
is
come in the
my husband."
husband,
3
do--.
But
L:
I said
J:
You want
Turn
you
it
said
you wouldn't
it.
it.
off
to
hear
now.
it
now.
(Tape
3
is
All
shut
right,
off).
door
She said,
it."
J:
your
then
have
INTERVIEWWITHMABELHAMPTON
(M)
Interviewer:
Lillian
Foster
J:
in
the
Nestle
Just
tell
(J)
how it
was different
being
a lesbian
twenties.
M:
. man and his
I went
wife.
woman I ever
fell
I didn't
was gettin'
all
Joan
(L)
night
with
the
stay.
in
to
so big.
If
known.
that
a family--two
with.
it
That
and
about,
she
I phones
when she
When she
a
She was the
first
got
kissed
the
lasted
three
thing--.
so one night,
asked
ready
me,
for
me too.
me would
to
I stay
leave,
I fainted
first
solid
You hear
1
I
back,
Now that's
come on that
children,
She loved
was all
go home,
So,
the
had--ever
love
kids.
me.
was
in
The man was a doctor.
in and kissed
shock
work
know what
ready
(inaudible)
to
real
she
dead
away,
love
I ever
years.
me,
came
if
that
Mabel
comes
Hampton
on that
thing,
in
a theater
[Mc'Gaillion].
is
going
to
Tell
group
Ooooh,
still
with
J:
wait
the
Around
break
about
with
You knew--what
M:
This
I'm
Go ahead.
J:
You were
Page
it.
what
you were
saying.
Baker
and Eva
Josephine
it
was like
a minute.
b2
then.
Thaaaaat
was the
day.
dancing.
nineteen-eighteen?
Still
the
same
time?
M:
the
child's
that
Not only
name?
What's
J:
[Marlene
M:
No,
straightened
Josephine
but
woman's
there
was--what's
name?
Deitrik]?
she-the
that
Baker
-
Lillian,
hair?
J:
Lena
M:
What was her
what's
that
woman's
name
Walker?
Horn.
name?
Walker.
Wasn't
her
last
name Walker?
started
L:
Hundred
M:
No,
and twenty-fifth
she--the
straightening
L:
Who's
M:
Colored
L:
Yeah,
first--the
Street?
woman that
first
hair.
hair?
people's
hair,
up on a hundred
she was.
2
dear.
and twenty-fifth
street
Mabel
Hampton
M:
or
fingers).
used
to,
an hour
then,
Page
Oh, that's
right.
Nelia
[Lilia]
Walker.
L:
Marion
M:
Yeah,
1:
I'm
all
M:
Her
daughter
from
the
show,
L:
Girl
that
Well,
anyhow.
[Lilia]
b3
(Snaps
Walker.
Walker.*
her
M:
She fell
L:
daughter--
right.
was named
[Lilia]
Walker.
We all
go up to-fell
out
out
in the
school
-
of
there
like
And couldn't
get
up.
J:
What was the
name of the
M:
Layin'
J:
What was the
M:
It
one
day--
gangbusters.
Their
neighbor
come home
later.
there
But
on the
floor.
Hugh?
name of the
was a musical--
show?
show?
"Come Along
was,
oh God,
other
different
anyhow,
we went
up to
Lilia
*
[ 'manda]."
And
ones.
Walker--.
All
of them
Checking
a tape I have of Jewelle
Gomez lecturing
on
lesbians
in the Harlem Renaissance,
I find a reference
to a
"Madam C.J. Walker",
the first
black woman millionaire,
who
made her fortune
out of designing
a way to straighten
black
women's hair.
It's
possible
that
the C stands
for Celia,
although
Mabel seems to be referring
to Madam C.J. 's
daughter.
In any event,
Marion does not seem to be correct.
(SA)
3
Mabel
Hampton
now--they're
big
And we goes
Oh,
girl,
nothin'
stars
up to
it
but
pillows.
but
Page
this
pillows.
in.
lights--something
but
it
wall
M:
The base
of the
walls,
M:
Deh,
deh,
what
you know,
see.
in.
deh,
deh.
that
we stayed
it's
food,
there
they'd
in
light,
And you sit
to
do.
See,
who you know.
gray
car
a couple
on
You did
but
And I was known,
The woman in the
They had
you set
(inaudible)
get
club--
a key
was
the--
you not
to
Like
ain't
floor
like
bid
order
J:
And there
food.
they
wasn't.
Beautiful!
and you hug anQ you kissed.
that
in
hill.
in chairs;
'round
of the
in by who I know.
See.
set
was
and others
And on the
The base
be known
It
there.
L:
you want
had to
up on the
had
and you drink,
anything
dead
You didn't
was circle,
floors
house
was beautiful
And they
it
then--some's
b4
so I got
And I got
carried
of days.
you
me in.
We had
bring--
I
It's
J:
I
like
a hotel.
I
M: Yup.
she
had
them
wasn't
servants
went
big,
there.
big
It
was a house
there.
All
But they
people
like
the
were
up on the
stars--Ethel
little
there
are
later-I
,,
set
4
folks
now.
hill.
And
Waters--all
then.
See,
of
They
fifty
years
Mabel
Hampton
J:
It
was
just
beginning.
M:
It
was
just
beginning.
friends.
And I danced
recall
the
name of
because,
M:
No.
nine.
in
the
key
trying
night,
they
all
of them
that
were
morning.
So she
running
nobody
bothered
for
me.
starts
and
I goes
forty-second
Avenue,
them
was
a moment,
I'll
think
going.
of the
_There
it
get
club
man's
up there.
dancin',
that
the
name
Aw, there
was about
was about
I was friendly
leave
was
the
eight
2 o'clock
with,
she
landlady
the
in."
you."
want
you to
go,"
around,
all
around.
and thirty-fifth,
'cause
I'm
used
Boom, boom,
twenty-fifth
street,
me.
on and
I locks
on back
Lennox
I
around--going
Down hundred
to
I' 11 go with
I don't
boom.
So,
I
"No,
of
The name of
go home and
even
"Oh,
Joy.
girl
to
can't
says,
I says,
to
the
"I have
she
the--jupt
was going
through
So,
says,
because
of
I'm
And we got
, says--I
the--at
Garden
of Joy.
one
And all
b5
it.
(Inaudible)
a bunch
or
at
L:
The Garden
was
Page
the
to
let
the
woman in.
door,
put
the
the
club
Street,
between--that
of the
keys
She was waitin'
in my pocket
Garden
up on a hill.
of Joy.
And just
was a hundred
5
and
hundred
as
I got
and thirty-third
on
Mabel
Hampton
Street
one
in
Page
and
Lennox
the
back
I says,
Avenue--this
of
me.
"Wait
for
man walks
He says,
what?"
"Wait
in
b6
front
of me,
and
a minute."
Now, he don't
know where
I'm
going.
So he says,
I says,
grabbed
"You're
"I'm
not
Now that's
opened
the
room
in
you,
these
Makes
door
for
things
He took
house.
Makes
He took
that.
a woman came in--tall,
lookin'
woman.
And she
asks
I told
her,
So she
says,
We'll
take
Now, she
I told
me,
"Have
me up to
This
the
girl
that
door--he
"Well,
you ever
her
says,
okay.
this
I tell
Year
One.
had
time,
she'll
been
me a
the
opened
very
given
the
door,
attractive
do."
with
a man?"
"No."
"Well,
I
him I was nineteen.
brown-skinned,
And he says,
the
where
me.
So he says--at
at
from
'cause,
on since
my ring.
knocked
them
and thirty-first
a block
me strip.
you?"
and took
doorbell--somebody
do.
are
a hundred
of
And carries
going
he punched
"How old
Both
a half
landlady.
been
us.
you.
to
the
and
my watch
with
me back
has
me strip,
with
practically
a private
He says,
and
coming
me and brought
Street.
ring.
coming
She'll
along."
"Dress."
6
be alright.
She'll
Mabel
Hampton
I put
meetin'
gets
the
or
down into
the
school
was the
I
Street,
I had
front
of me,
don't
know where
like
would
time.
In comes
no money.
what,
I went
the
slammed
that
but
it
right
you know,
the
out
"She's
that
gone
train
at
like
that,
I don't
struck
the
down to
platform
didn't
side
and
where
thirty-
there
was a
go downtown.
a hundred
subway,
and forty-
the
man's
woman,
'cause
I was
down those
Two, three
he seen
that
and tenth
and the
I went
So,
side
a hundred
window.
and we
downtown
care
in
I
stairs
steps
me gone.
same thing.
thing,
ran
I don't
right
and he threw
know whether
door.
a hundred
there,
the
of me,
around,
the
that
door.
on the
I'm
at
The
downstairs."
under
to
the
figure.
man turned
I ducks
The door
through
leap
to
up_to
to
back
and
always
And the
man says,
that
come back
went
down,
a hundred
go down to
man in
she
I could
to
over
b7
'bout
I comes
subway
Isn't
when we get
and the
figurin'.
other
and
So,
nothin'
you know then,
down the
'cause
over,
and
And,
side.
Street.
the
Avenue
downtown
fifth
Libby
So when
school.
cross
say
we crosses
You went
on.
I don't
nothin'.
on Lennox
there.
I live
I
is
on.
street,
Street--the
subway
I
my clothes
friends
fifth
it
Page
it
and got
7
the
went
for
in the
car.
knife
right
inside
or
as
I could
be.
Street,
cross
over,
train
and
I was scared
and tenth
the
wait
uptown
Mabel
Hampton
Page
come right
on up to
that
four
time,
standin'
told
outside
them
life,
I never
'cause
more.
walked
they
were
right
thirty-fifth
they
have.
the
or
the
ain't
bell,
way--they
that
corner
a hundred
there,
nobody
copy
of
were
And I
the
Avenue
knew that
I had
seen
He says,
been
to
the
"Well,
a
they
woman--
a hundred
and
there--or
there
place
and they
where
Street.
there.
So,
everything
in
to
rang
"Booh."
We goes
room and
ride--
that
the
house
went
woman who owned the
the
some
went
them
man tell
and
my
Street,
they
I told
a red-stoned
and thirty-fifth
made the
didn't
where
And they
knew nothin'
walked--they
first
all
switchblade
and told
Street
say,
had
in
in
See,
It's
knives
went
house.
seventh
nobody
described
me.
At
and thirty-fifth
I heard
something.
me at
a hundred
me 'cause
We came back.
the
girls
so long?"
always
And they
down to
Street.
apartment
and
was you
me women ain't
up to
take
on the
Street.
so many switchblade
and thirty-fifth
gonna
forty-fifth
fellows
tell
back
went
hundred
the
"Where
seen
The come all
they
of
and
happened.
so don't
knives,
five
sayin',
what
Well,
and
or
a hundred
b8
there.
the
When they
they
house
I'd
been
'cause
she
girl
8
just
they
left
got
the
carried
get
cop,
come out,
and
in.
So the
said
she
there."
and
cop
hadn't
I
Mabel
Hampton
But
found
we all
the
people
you,
for
looked
man nor
white
for
those
people
nothin'.
slavery
So,
has
daddy
My mother
to
work.
one
let
I'm
nobody
ever
every
hour.
Ain't
never
girl
year.
I kept
tryin'
out
died
and ain't
this
thing
of
been
goin'
on since
to
when
about,
but
God--thank
bothered
me.
Well,
L:
From nineteen,
bothered
me.
didn't
J:
Well,
L:
I don't
M:
That
one
was a very
bad
see.
that.
9
this
New York at
right
in the
bed with
didn't
bother
that
ever
experience.
Never
ain't
nor
I had.
But nobody
Well,
me--man
want
How could
work.
right.
And they
what
go to
somethin'?
husband.
know.
that,
slept
to
I begged
story,
walked
bothered
I have
I bet.
like
all
I have
ever
and a man or her
another
that
of
me to
me go to
make a short
I was kiddin',
And nobody
they
to
Then
want
let
Now, isn't
M:
So maybe
him to
to,
age
I went
I went.
He didn~t
beggin'
the
I was twelve.
all
work.
get
talk
on my own at
That's
me go to
Well,
what
I always
I started
high-school
have
the
You know,
Jesus--.
nineteen.
me.
long
b9
began.
L:
the
night
woman nor
snatchin'
time
Page
had
woman.
be?
bothered
me.
I would
another
one
never
like
Mabel
Hampton
Page
L:
I've
been
a lucky
M:
And nobody
L:
But
girl
in
New York
blO
all
these
years.
times
is
sick,
I'm
'cause
you
gettin'
out
stayin'
older
me after
know now,
so bad
nervous
I'm
bothered
and
on the
in
I'm
I don't
the
half
that.
know why,
street
house
sick,
and
maybe
that
I'm
by myself.
I'm
very
that
half
Maybe
nervous
being
Lillian
Foster.
alone.
after
me,
J:
You can't
take
L:
But
ain't
nobody
M:
Me,
I don't
that,
I'd
really
were
but
J:
It
sounded
fought--took
care
of
of
each
protective
around
something
in
You've
heard
and
to
with
will
believe
them,
No,
that.
they
of
the
taught
It
as you
me it
never
were
each
bothered
me,
Anybody
walkin'
talking,
that
other.
even
about
I mean that
that
guides
that
the
women
you
other.
means
I once--I
it?
bothered
street.
me and
happen
ever
precautions.
out
very
in
of _yourself.
know.
step
M:
walks
I took
care
me.
rightens
joined
I still
me a lot
I have
Even
itself.
the
correspond
to
10
think.
a spirit
if
I'm
See,
[Rose
of
a little
that
wrong,
I really
Crucian].
bit
with
Mabel
Hampton
If
'
I lose
don't
worry
going
to
find
something,
about
find
it.
it.
want
you'll
worry--she
it,
I. lose
And ten
bother,,
''Oh,
I don't
If
when I don't
it
says,
Page
to
can tell
I lose
it.,
one chances
it.
If
get
she
you--I
I know i'm
I finds
loses
it.
I
something,
sur'e
and
it,•'
bll
I
later,
enough
'
she'll
L:
mother,
she
it.
go and get
be
nothin'
had
fight.
seen
I was
ain't
in
never
It
(The recording
J had said softly
second
is
'cause
nothing
side
is
Mabel
do you
school,
bothered
know,
I see
all
being
is
the
luckiest
Yes
sir,
she's
I've
never
the
children
there.
women with
very
been
lucky.
in
a
fightin',
time.
ends on this
side of the tape.
to herself,
I'm going
to turn
it
completely
And
me
was a different
anywhere
know her
I don't
by her
mother
my life.
in
Mabel.
over
be her
nobody--and,
J:
.here
watches
to
an angel
I ever
But
nobody
it
but
must
Somebody
on the
blank).
other
side
of the
Although
over,
tape.
The
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON (M)
Interviewer:
Joan
J:
Joan
Nestle
[This
Nestle
just
is
(J)
the
story]
of Mabel
Hampton,
in Bedford
hills.
There
with
helping.
M:
We arrived
J:
Did you go by bus?
M:
We were
How were
was--
you taken
there,
Mabel?
by bus
taken
or
car?
by car,
me questions--how
Wait
taken
buy--let
a minute,
and there
old
me see,
were
we taken
[I was]
I was the
only
one.
was a woman with
me.
She was asking
was
I?
J:
How old
were
M:
I think
I told
J:
Was that
M:
Yeah.
the
you?
them
I was eighteen.
truth?
And the
woman said,
1
"Well,
how did
you
Mabel
Page
Hampton
d2
i
I
come to
get
mixed
I said,
going
and
to
"I
take
I--but
cops
up with
didn't
us to
get
So I told
lik~
that
know who he was."
the
he didn't
come to
somebody
cabaret
do it.
or
man?"
He promised
something--my
So she
l
asked
he was
girlfriend
me to
tell
how the
me.
her,
"Well,
the
fellow
knocked
on the
door,
I
II
II
I!
1I
answered
Bedford
the
door--"
J:
We've
done
that.
We've
done
that.
Go on to
Hills.
M:
hungry;
Alright.
I told
She
her
So,
she
says--they
me was
I
"No."
"Do you know how long
says,
asked
you're
going
to
be
Ii
here?"
I says,
"Well,
I says,
years.
it
"But
seems
like
I don't
I'll
think
be here
I'll
for
be here
three
for
three
years.
She
said,
"Why?"
I says,
done?"
like
I says,
that.
She
you
"Because
"I don't
Why should
says,
do anything
I haven't
"Well,
or not.
done
anything.
know nothing
they
that
keep
judge
about
What have
a man or nothing
me in
here
three
don't
give
a dern
She gets
paid
there."
2
to
send
years?"
whether
you up
I
I
Mabel
Hampton
I said,
Page
"Well,
that's
a terrible
d3
way of makin'
a
livin'."
She
says,
"I know it
J:
Who was the
M:
This
investigator.
and
So,
she
had
mixed
wife
in,
big,
gray
and
She
that?"
We'll
in
big,
get
"Now,"
So,
here
she
So,
didn't
have
through
says,
his
trouble
she
you to
these
you to
a very
They
says,
have
"Well,
no trouble.
me food.
All
take
like
"You hungry?"
or white?
eatin'
in
and
black
"I'll
no clothes.
bein'
take
She was white.
I got
man there
young."
"I'll
M:
at . "
a private
He called
and we won't
give
Was she
says,
doin'
she
J:
she
look
in
And the
charmin'.
same thing,
They
says,
was my
eighteen."
alright,
"Yes."
be she
I went
house.
"My, you
the
you out."
I says,
private
"What was you
along
you?
was my investigator,
Hills.
was very
So I repeated
she
to
to
nice.
big
I'm
out
out
Bedford
says,
"Yes,
said,
get
turned
hair--he
-- .
woman who was talking
was very
she
I says,
you'll
It
we arrived
house--big,
She says,
woman was--turned
See.
I thought
is.
nice
didn't
3
the
dormitory--"
are
white
where
the
dinner.
give
people.
girls
Then,
you a chance
sleep
I
to
I
I
Mabel
get
Hampton
nothing.
Page
See.
She remind
J:
Anita
Bryant.
M:
Yeah.
Could
me of that
hussie
d4
right
over
there.
have
been
her
sister.
I
J:
The
judge
M:
The
judge.
J:
So,
did
M:
Oh yes,
J:
What
did
she
M:
Well
she
brought
I
[reminded
-
you
of Anita
Bryant].
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
;!
they
give
you
clothes?
I got-give
you?
in
the--let's
see,
what
did
I'
she
bring
in?
then--what
shoes,
do you
stockins.
And she
says,
the
She brought
call
me in
them
She asked
says,
"Now I'll
"Now remember,
there're
a shirt--a
things?--peticoat,
me what
take
What kind
of
M:
The dress
was a gray
The shoes
size
shoe,
some more
dress
shirt--and
drawers,
you to
J:
front.
gold
your
girls
I told
her.
room.
She
in
room.
your
was it?
was Oxfords,
dress.
It
buttoned
and the
stockins
down
was
black.
hair
So,
she
for
you.
I said,
She
says,
says
"I
now,
can
"All
"One of these
girls
will
comb your
comb it."
right."
So,
I had
4
pretty,
shoulder-
Mabel
Page
Hampton
length
hair,
so
I didn't
So we comes
that
door--I
the
but
I heard
She
it
says,
"Miss
now.
I can't
right
heard
So,
that.
a door.
should,
door.
tell
to
mind
remember
the
now I don't.
a voice
saying,
-----what
she
d5
is
says,
"I
on
She knocked
on
"What
that
got
number
do you want?"
woman's
name?
a new girl
Can't
that's
comin'
in."
( Pause
takes
So,
M:
The house,
me to
the
So,
tall,
thirty
they
yard
or
three
was with
She was
tape)
J:
houses--two
that
in
me.
like
.
take
you
yes,
where
says,
after
good-lookin',
years
is
gone.
Now,
row of
little
a whole
Now,
it
wasn't
her,
it
was this
girl
opened
the
brown-skin
So,
old.
she
you're
a kid.
shoulder
to some more,
got
And one
pressure."
"Well,
house
there's
doors.
It wasn't
house--?
the
she
supervisor
man's
wife.
an overseer.
she
we've
this
the
put
calling
the
woman--1
guess
her
out.
hand
And she
Come on in.
what
to
them
hollered
by name,
door--I
faced
he was about
She says,
"Oh,
over
she
her
says,
''Look
here."
of
if
the
she
girls
can't,
says,
I'll
"I hope
take
5
care
she
a
can
of her.''
stand
the
Mabel
Hampton
I said
Page
[to
What am I going
pay
for
handed
this
to
over.
to
You see
do?"
woman gave
her
from
Here's
"What
I'm
now,
in
for
it
somebody's
now.
going
to
outside,
your
time
me the
cot."
is
bundle
and the
It's
a cot
girl
you
of
clothes
says,
slept
that
was
"Come on
I
on.
And she
*
it?"
~
(.,
I
ain't
take
"Oh my god,
this.
So,
asks,
myself],
d6
says,
goin'
care
"What
to
of
bed
the
now."
your
I says,
"Mabel.
I looked
for?
to
'cause
it
know the
time
for?
You
make no difference,
I
kid.**
"What's
"Mabel
do you want
name?"
"
what?"
at
her,
[It's]
Mabel."
"Alright,
if
she
"What
did
don't
want
you want
to
tell
to
me,
know my name
don't
tell
me.
*
Although
Mabel did use the pronouns
"I" and "She" as
indicated
in order
to outline
the dialogue
between
her and
her cell
mate,
it's
not absolutely
clear
who's saying
what.
Is Mabel really
getting
tough with this
woman right
off in
order
to make a point?
Or is it actually
the other
woman
who's getting
bossy?
(SA)
** The confusion
continues
as above.
I left
this
out
of quotes
because
it's
not clear
whether
it's
Mabel's
musings
on her own ability
to care for herself,
or whether
it's
part
of what could possibly
be her cell
mate's
refusal
to tell
her the time.
(SA)
6
Mabel
Hampton
She
says,
nightgown
you'll
for
you.
"Now, there's
went in
[sounds
there
like
She
funny
bathroom.
with
"Here
lookin'
bed
"Now,
so,
d7
"Here's
a
nightgown.
Go in
there
She says,
and undress."
on--she
throwed
So,
I put
I
me a pair
them
on [and]
my clothes.
is
like
don't
your
bed."
that.
Well,
So,
I sat
cry,
because
the
back
of
the
"Oh,
what
is
goin'
The woman in
you're
on the
and undressed.
Put
'used'
(used what?)]
(inaudible)--
say,
She says,
me later."
I put
the
come on out
tell
Page
I never
seen
down on the
nobody's
gonna
room says,
a
bed.
hurt
"No,
not
you."
while
here."
So,
course,
I said,
I said
"Oh,"
to
happen?"
So,
of
my prayers.
one
of the
hollered,
"She's
holy
and
sanctimonious."
told
called
I said,
"Well,
what
did
that
So,
the
one that
you
she
was an innocent"--what
mean?"
was taking
care
of me said,
did
something.
7
I said
she
call
to
myself.
"Sure,
me?
she
I
Mabel
Hampton
She
said,
"No,
So,
"Hmmm, you must
I didn't
she
accustomed
else
Page
said,
to
to
know her
"All
saying
do but
say
knowed
me,
right.
Go to
my prayers,
and nobody
and when
I woke up,
said
the
011tside."*
outside."*
my prayers.
bothered
her
d8
bed."
I was
so I didn't
So,
know nothin'
I fell
a word to
?sleep.
me.
sun was shining
Nobody
I fell
asleep,
beautifully
in
there--beautifully.
She say,
and get
"It's
dressed
early.
now.
and pulled
off
bathroom.
We dressed
beautiful
There
["said
huge
this
out
We go for
cotton
there.
There
And then
I heard
something.
The girl
diningroom
and eat."
So,
diningroom.
*
she
took
said,
me by the
The diningroom
Again,
have been that
sanctimonious"
or it could be
to
get
up and wash up
breakfast."
nightgown
and we come out
was--it
was just
nice.
it can't
be squared,"
log.
You have
and washed
in the
was chairs
I
or
So,
I got
up in the
yard.
sitting
up
It
was
around.
saw a canopy spread"]
(inaudible)--the
something
like
"Now, we have
hand,
a bell
to
go down in the
and we went
was about
as
long
or
on down to
as from
the
here
confusion
as to who is talking.
It could
women who said Mabel was "holy and
talking
with the woman taking
care of Mabel,
Mabel's
guardian
talking
with Mabel.
(SA)
8
fl,.
Mabel
to
I
Hampton
that
were
wasn't
I didn't
up there--bookstore.
together.
There
They
I
store
women were
all.
Page
they
M:
White
set
So,
They were
have
White
kind
"We have
"Boy,
Always
had
first
of
women.
been
young
girls.
and black
they
were.
place
is
this?"
and--I'll
sausages-,
good
never
eggs,
forget
it--
and potatoes.
coffee,
rolls
I don't
food.
beds
to
see
they
you
she
says,
sit
around
smile."
had.
know where
So,
and
day was the
Did you see
Not then,
So later
talk.
good
it
Oh,
had
come from,
"And then
and talk."
they
not
on--about
The would
same thing
any
then,
signs
all
we go back
So that
of
over
ended
agiin.
lesbians?
no.
two or three
whisper.
days
So I said
9
of--everybody
to
that
good
but
day.
J:
M:
it's
did.
The second
would
them
they?
me down by her,
we ate:
make up our
the
count
"Sure!"
She says,
they
and
that?"
I says,
food.
were
what
says,
couldn't
could
and black.
"Well,
girls
attention.
What color
had--she
You like
any
been--I
the
or twenty.
They
J:
she
have
fifteen
girls.
them
So I thought,
So,
about
young
pay
J
Must
And all
d9
girl,
and
Mabel
Hampton
"Who are
they
She
dykes
Page
talkin'
laughed.
don't
I said,
wouldn't
So,
She
say
nothin'.
she
says,
girls'
but
club
they
at
and
you
Well,
Yeah,
of
girls--in
a girls'
thinking
said,
'dykes'?"
I
club?"
what
when
said,
"Yes,"
thought
belonged
to
they
wasn't--I
but
or
not.
But
Jersey
City.
you
you
did
said
"Do you
what
were
that
it
'Yes'?
belong
you
was
there."
to
a
thinking?
an ordinary
by myself
for
fifth
three
day,
"Hello,
a club?
don't
I had
I says,
I was wonderin'.
says,
Those
time.
M:
And he
to
mean by
me lateF
you
I just
You had
the
she
When she
J:
during
mind.
do there?"
tell
thinking?
lesbians
So,
here
You'll
were
couple
any
talk."
you
that
does
you
What were
M:
creeps
Uhrnmm. "
J:
club?"
those
"You belong
right.
What were
hell
"What'd
"Nothing,
"All
the
"Yeah.
said,
pay
anything."
"What
I says,
about?"
"Don't
mean
d10
"Here
years.
So,
he come up,
this
little
girl."
10
messed
I'm
the
know whether
around
going
with
to
a
be up
man come up--
same white
He says,
fellow.
"You want
to
Mabel
,
Hampton
write
any
Page
letters
dll
home?"
1
I says,
"No."
"You ain't
"No."
about
bed
got
I said,
[Maud] .
and
had
Sunday.
nobody
[Maud]
and
I had
time.
says,
I says,
write
"I' 11 think
a nice
She
to
about
it."
been
friends.
So the
"You want
to?"
wife,
to
go to
So I thought
she
We went
to
come up on a
church?"
"Uhugh."
"What
are
I got
to
you:
Methodist,
Catholic,
Presbyterian
or
what?"
says,
say
around
the
room.
I
"Methodist."
She
says,
"Are
I says,
"I
So,
she
says,
She
says,
everything.
go to
"Are
says,
So then
in
"You want
the
to
go for
your
go with
yes.
did.
yard
them
I think
clothes
about
it."
to
I'll
nice
pressed
and
me."
take
take
And there
and
when
right."
I have
and he was very
out
of
you going
"Oh,
she
sure.
all
"All
You can
She
there,
you
"Now,
I says,
set
I looked
something.
you."
was a Methodist
too.
looked
me?"
minister
Then we come on back.
at
a walk?"
11
the
flowers.
She says,
We
Mabel
Hampton
I says,
She
Page
"No,
says,
I says,
She
"Why?
says,
me.?
"
in
the
"All
says,
I looked
and
I says,
"No,
says,
nice--and
you
say.
and
She took
"Any of
the
I said,
"What
outside
walk."
you talk?"
to
right,
"Well,
also
her
another--I
was--but
I will
my hand
girls
of
start
an9
up here
is
she
you
we sat
She
she
all
the
and
walkin'
guided
you
trying
the
women 1-ikes
husband."
don't
I says,
So,
to
."
me
like?"
to
white
dig
out
of
woman down
office."
She
or
nothing
walkin'.
She
want
Why don't
"I have
So we started
along.
I don't
d12
We went
know whether
on this
it
thing.
her
'cause
on down.
was a pool
She
says,
she
Some place
or
"Can you
what
it
swim?"
"No."
says,
"Neither
says,
I.
can
"You know,
We'll
you don't
sit
here
know me.
and talk."
My name is
Ruth."
I says,
She
haven't
says,
got
Well,
didn't
they
"Yeah."
want
would
"I know you.
your
I'm
last
not
anybody
I still
Your
name is
Mabel.
her
my last
name because
name."
gonna
to
do or what
tell
know I was there.
they
would
say.
12
I didn't
I
know what
I 11 e you
1
c
be
IDF bed
d
eep
you
oo
o
ahe
e
O
ah, ..
1DF bed
If
nt
il
Mabel
Hampton
So she
says,
I says,
She
have
"Well,
"You play
says,
we'll
play
Black
"We have
Jack
money?
I says,
"No,
I don't
time
pick
up any money
to
was away.
The children
myself.
Only
She
all
Page
the
three
days,
says,
"So that's
children
and
"Someday
somebody's
I said,
"I wish
She
says,
"No,
So,
we had
because
in
camp,
all
what
send
I could
that's
got
the
that
I didn't
people
I work
I was there
for
by
happened.
Norris
up here."
her
money?"
I said
and
Judge
them
gonna
money."
any money."
and
sends
for
Jack."
Have you
have
was
Black
d14
do.
She
She takes
said,
somewhere."
right
now.
alright.
God will
take
care
of
her."
cream
for
dessert.
there
and
sat
"Yeah,
She
like
to
have
It
down.
I like
says,
"I
a supper--a
was
So,
lovely
summertime,
she
says,
supper
with
and we went
"I like
ice
back
out
you.
you too."
don't
know whether
you
like
me the
way I
you.
I
says,
She
bed
and
she
kissed
"No,
said
she
I guess
no more
took
me.
me in
I wasn't
not."
[until]
her
And I sat
time
bed
to
and held
go to
there.
bed.
me in her
I was much smaller
so big.
14
We went
arms
to
and
than
I
rr
I
Mabel
Hampton
am now.
Four
Page
I wore
shoe.
So,
a Twelve
dress.
she
me in her
held
Very
smallAr.
arms,
dl5
I wore
and
I went
a
to
sleep.
J:
Say the
M:
I told
many people
It's
M:
Okay,
She put
know.
Well,
next
up your
take
notice.
off.
This
says,
"That's
stinkin'
it
was goin'
"Yeah,
to
from
just
up to
me.
Okay.
me like
go this
to
way,
do,
you
in half.
Ellen
the
used
and
to
that
she'd
kisses"--to
one to
the
me questions,
This
like
I like
kiss
Then,
this
a month
myself,
I
I have
or two.
would
or pump her--ask
way.
a
one."
nobody
they
to
one was paired
girls.
me goodbye.
other,
I began
two go this
they
for
same thing.
girls.
those
girls.
on like
the
off.
I b'lieve
like
we come to
so
that--
was about
one was paired
her
want
sleep.
room and talk
went
it
It's
day--everyday
they
I don't
you.
arm around
"None of your
So,
Break
funny.
I like
ask
my business.
somewhere,
And,
says,
one
Listen,
it's
This
idea
So,
and
her
Mabel.
truth.
up to
And I went
Clean
the
knowin'
J:
truth,
her
So,
If
she
I said,
else.
try
to
pump me
questions.
She
damn business."
the
point
where
15
the
girls
come and make
Mabel
Hampton
wine.
1
let
And,
them
give
say
act.
were
she
by the
pool."
you
things
love
out
to
I know,
It's
got
it
says,
It
on.
me and
was a big,
she
In about
big,
says,
three
says,
one will
with
oldtimers.
so-and-so
down
name?
more
back
to
papers
you,
and
months.
made dresses
out
comin'
but
are
her.
We made
in
the
One day,
for
yard,
in my ear
me,
and
I sittin'
you know--go
she
had
something.
her
I
."
you,
I feel
huge
I kiss
was nice!
Eighteen
girl
"What
"No,
she
little
I may have
me and was whispering
is
the
brings
and
kiss
I was sittin'
I says,
So,
goin'
was his
then
she
yard--this
"Somebody
"No,"
out.
but
up,
went
church.
wouldn't
name on them.
So,
She
It
his
time.
dl6
it."
"I'm
so long,
of times.
time
of
girl
They was really
me,
find
been
we wound
arm around
out
see.
to
this
know what
And Mr.--what
M:
So,
a long
don't
her
say
We'll
the
for
oldtimers,
a couple
in
says,
leave
would
that
So,
you
J:
know.
a ball.
wine
and
So,
And so,
I had
me any
up here,
They
I!
oh boy,
"We're
or
Page
a spiritualist?"
there's
a man comin'
up here."
place.
"Alright,"
seconds,
and
the
she
removed
man appeared.
16
her
arm.
And he says,
Mabel
"Is
Hampton
a girl
Page
here
I said,
named
"Are
and
name?
he's
"Well
"The
been
down there.
take
as
*
of his
I says,
J:
wants
comin'
up here
stayed
there
house.
you
from
here
to
And t~ere
his
she
quite
Living
in their
M:
In the
house.
of course,
get
house,
and take
you
Eighty-Sixth
he wanted
"You think
me to
you can
do it?"
do it."
J:
And,
to
the
that
house?
clean
said
What's
you down in
He says,
I can
not
as
house.
his
j..t?
right."
walk
house.
Clean
for
to
The big
"Yeah,
wife
all
far
M: Yeah,
And his
do you call
supervisor
Now, it's
maybe.
care
the"--what
after
So we had
Street
you Mabel?"
"Uhugh. "
He says,
man's
Hampton?"
"Yes."
He says,
I says,
Mabel
d17
I'd
house.
was very
six
glad.
So there--I
months.
house.
They took
go up and
me to
see
the
live
girls,
in their
and the
girls-J:
angry?
What was the
Did they
*
About
six
feel
reaction
you were
blocks?
with
(SA)
17
of the
them?
girls?
Were they
I
Mabel
Hampton
Page
M:
They
didn't
I was different
figured
seasoned
women.
And this
house
cops
and
everything
then
they
would
there.
run
of
or
that's
anything
found
out
me in.
the
money.
city,
she
see]
and
anything.
girls
give
that?
J:
Did anybody
M:
No.
Wait
told
us.
have
her
men
And
money.
mammy up
was a QT.
into
up
old,
prostitutes.
Everything
divided
they
things.
And they
Oh, you made money's
said
like
They were
different
[to
her
Because
and
come in there
No.
butches
and
Studs?
(inaudible)-a minute.
I come back
to
Not that
New York
time.
and went
See,
back.
Then
I
everything.
J:
I didn't
M:
I went back.
know you went
I told
back.
you.
This
woman turned
I was too-J:
you were
M:
investigator
in
visit
See.
in a way.
woman.
M:
after
me.
by another
Were the
J:
them
a house
come up to
But nobody
fems
from
had
is
She made lots
mad at
They was prostitutes
One woman up there
So,
get
d18
Alright.
in that
Yeah,
came up.
Tell
house
okay.
the
for
story
six
After
that's
to
18
along.
months.
I was there
She talked
going
this
for
woman.
awhile,
And then
the
1
Mabel
she
Hampton
says,
"Mabel,
New York.
was
Page
"You can't
picked
t o.?
you
want
go to
Morningside
Is
anybody
there.
there
to
go back
New York
up at--in
I
back
would
'cause
Jersey?"--not
that's
See,
Avenue.
else
to
d19
you
you know you
where
you
can't
go
could
go
"
I says,
name.
I says,
"I
And she
three
can
you
can
said,
out--"--you
So,
yes."
"Oh,
So,
go and
"Well,
know what
sure
days
write
out
J:
Like
her."
with
investigate
went
can
you
knows
and
She
find
say
says,
them
call
do you
woman's
you."
..and I would
again.
What
II
this
her
she
away,
was back
out--
so that
stay
I'll
she
she
write
go--I'll
I called
I mean--"That
enough,
later,
I forget,
about
"Well,
you
things
that
go somewhere?
a pass.
M: Yeah.
She
tomorrow.
But
you're
So,
her
says,
I'll
and
lesbian.
And she
not
in
"Now,
you
can
take
you
and
to
the
go to
meantime,
friendly.
And she had her
I was free
me that,
to
come to
take
you to
this
leave
woman's
house.
New York."
I had
met
Just
I became
told
go tomorrow.
You can
a white
ordinarily.
girlfriend
anytime
woman there,
that
I wanted
That's
New York.
19
But
lived
to
she
and
was a
in New York.
come to
New York,
how I met Gladys
Mabel
Hampton
Bently
and
you her
the
nothing
"I
So,
this
"Oh,
She
women.
address."
She
I can."
other
out
in
says,
"You give
"I'll
remember
take
come
says,
"I'll
weeks
too."
give
no papers
it?"
or
Okay .
in.
see
you when
I
address,
and
a whLte
friend
I'll
give
it
else."
two
friends:
I was so happy.
one
and
six
year
Okay,
or
so this
tongue--she
seven
says,
I says,
So,
and
got
"Well,
been
"Well,
of the
three.
on the
end
come down to
out,"
see
there
of my
and
"come to
you."
come that
the
mornin'
colored
at
eight
girl
and
the
white
I was gone.
people.
says,
out
a colored
made me stay
gettin'
I kissed
me.
and
I've
had
and
"
I know the
white
She
I'll
investigator
"goodbye,"
Now,
months
"Now, you're
"Alright.
this
They
woman says--right
me some time.
those
six
says,
"Can you
you
me your
Oh,
girl
what
girl
friend.
o'clock
says,
she
d20
I says.
So now I had
see
So,
You don't
with
colored
comin'
yeah,"
someone
the
think
I'm
come out.
of
You go out
out.
II
to
rest
name and
I says,
•
Page
colored
girl
Be very
careful
around
your
said
them
life
to
"Be careful
of them."
mostly
isn't
20
me,
all
over
of my life."
with
yet."
of
Mabel
Page
Hampton
Okay,
so we were
York--come
on to
(shrilling)
that
you
bitch
get
We come on to
And this
seen
in
New
woman says,
you
trouble?"
in
such
a long
She reminded
time.
me of
there.
Anita
Bryant.
pointing
Say her
pointing
name because
you're
a car.
I haven't
know who you're
bitch's
in
City.
yourself
over
J:
won't
Jersey
"Mabel,
Why did
going
d21
to.
name because
You have
women who hear
this
people
to
won't
say
that
know what
to.
M: Okay.
J:
Anita
M:
Just
So she
ashamed
Bryant.
reminds
me of Anita
when I got
says,
there,
Bryant.
"You should
have
been
of yourself."
So,
I says,
"I want
She says,
"Yeah,
Now there
was
a job. "
I got
a job
for
you..
Up on the
hill."
once
before,
took
me up to
you very
and
a colored
she
the
woman up there
was gay.
woman's
much.
She talks
She says,
"You want
That's
house.
all
She says,
nice.
to
live
there?"
I says , "No . "
21
that
I had met
I wanted.
"Yeah,
They
I like
GJ
Mabel
Page
Hampton
(End
'
I
Side
M [in
had
all
says,
to
there.
them
"I'm
see
So,
so glad
to
"Thank
he had
she
see
And your
I says,
I will
And I had
girls.
you.
So,
1).
mid-sentence]:
some furniture
d22
been
things
are
van.
I had
with
her.
I
"Oh,
Mabel,"
she
I know my husband
would
love
well
She used
a movin'
friendly
come in there,
you.
you."
stand."
taken
to
care
save
of."
my life.
The name was Brown--Maud
Brown.
So she--"Come
over
and had
Miss
for
over
something
to
"Yes,
and
whatever
work
I did.
this
I says,
something
say,
I'll
woman say,
to
eat."
I went
eat.
Wathchamacallit
I says,
So,
and have
"You're
workin'
I always
pay you.
"You don't
"No."
I think
she
J:
This
was the
M:
Hugh?
J:
The gay woman?
M:
No, no,
now.
want
had--was
got
to
stay."
it
one child
good pay
or two
children?
I'm
gay woman.
Who--?
talkin'
about
22
this
woman I went
to
Mabel
Page
Hampton
work
for.
Now,
was very
I don't
nice.
other--(bangs)
her.
her--on
Pitts
Well,
together,
nationality
She was a good-lookin',
And down from
see
know what
and
another
was her
her
I,
and
we talked
she
blonde
together,
together,
She
this
And I went
name.
we slept
was.
woman.
street--lived
last
d23
down to
and we ate
and we laughed
together.
-
So,
she
says,
"Now, what
I ain't
11
gonna
Now there's
uncle.
have
says,
I says,
She
I says,
"Well,
"No,
And I told
it
with
white
to
"That's
tell
She says,
I says,
Pitts,
break
it
off
put
and
me,
and my
it
together.
it
to
alright."
money?"
money
in the
bank."
it?"
"This
white
"You're
woman gave
alright.
You've
me,
been
and
I
messin'
people."
I says,
started
··
things."
get
in the bank."
"oh,"
she says.
do?"
do with
I'm
her
to
to
I got
you
going
lot
"You need
"Where'd
put
to
"How's
says,
you
do nothing.
a whole
You'll
She
are
her
nothing
"Yes,
new.
something
"You still
and
is
I'll
I
and
I said,
a fresh
always
23
said,
"Skip
"Skip
woman."
be that."
it."
it."
I
Mabel
Hampton
She
it,
says,
"Well,
all
right."
She says,
"I
d24
love
you for
II
So time
white
that
went
on.
woman appeared
she
girl--a
to
Page
in
a gray
the
car--open
The woman that
J:
That
you met
M:
That
I met in Bedford--contacted
went
with.
And that
woman--another
girl.
And they
[palled]
J:
had
in
The
car.
M:
palled
woman?
I left.
date,
Which
they
white
to
J:
white
it--but
Two weeks
The woman from-the
whore
house.
Bedford.
the
girl
woman
had
around--wasn't
a
nothing
around.
So they
were
lesbians
and they
was lesbians
now.
were
prostitutes?
M: Everything
J:
And also
prostitutes?
M: And prostitutes
J:
who were
Lesbian
lesbians,
see.
I mean,
prostitutes.
lesbian
women
prostitutes.
M: Lesbian
And this
knew what
and
white
women who were
woman that
I was because
J:
Was she
M:
Yes.
had
prostitutes.
this
whore
house--she
she-a lesbian?
She had
talked
24
to
me and questioned
me
Mabel
Hampton
about
half
what
of
Page
I did,
where
New York,
So she
M:
So,
to
she
came to
her
police
see
pull
And she
knew
force.
you up--.
me.
up at
like
So,
the
the
when Miss-door,
she
idea.
didn't
Was a good-
So,
woman.
the
She didn't
say.
who I knew.
came and picked
her--seen
know what
lookin'
includint
J:
whatchacall
I went,
d25
she
asked
was Mabel
almost),
"yes.
Hampton--Miss
Hampton--there.
She
says
(whining
"May I see
her."
"You certainly
Someone
want
to
may.
see
I come on down.
I threw
one.
'cause
them
welcomin'
So,
she
says,
"Oh,
around
her
asses
"You want
"uhmhum."
down.
Called
my life.
stupid
Mabel-1-1-1.
my God.
neck
didn't
So you're
the
and welcomed
know nothin'
her-about
anybody.
I says,
Flew
you."
I said,
my arms
other
Babel-1-1-1,
the
to
I went
go for
upstairs
woman by name--can't
And she--"Well,
a drive?"
and
think
got
of
you know,
you don't
is
the
my jacket.
it
now to
go to
New
York."
I said,
"If
New York
around
25
corner,
then
I'm
save
Mabel
goin'
Page
Hampton
d26
."
So we gets
York.
Went to
and those
this
in
the
car
and
a cabaret,
people,
goes
straight
and that's
on over
to
how I met Ethel
New
Waters
you know.
J:
We'll
M:
I met so many people
woman that
talk
about
was the
them.
head
that
of this
this
girl
house
knew,
knew.
and
They was
friends.
J:
So she
cabaret?--the
name of
M:
Wait
of
think
can't
later
come back
I
Okay,
so she
M:
Yeah,
because
was friends,
one's
come in
until
New Jersey,
about
took
she
twelve
Jersey,
and
or one
Oh,
white
o"clock,
26
meeting
Gladys
Bently?
a year
good.
for
this
knew the
that.
about
I met her
you to
and the
like
her?
then.
you see--both
from
end
it.
New York
J:
them
Newark,
to
Small's
of my tongue
Talk
meet
her
to
though.
to
to
meet
I didn't
M:
when
come back
the
it was?
I know I went
on the
I will
now.
it
now.
it's
to--oh,
you remember
where
Did you get
Bently.
Gladys
it?--or
We'll
J:
you--do
a minute
I went
Paradise.
I
took
cabaret--?
friends.
All
and black.
black
ones
And they'd
and then
of
White
come in from
stay
they'd
there
go home.
Mabel
Hampton
And,
naturally,
just
as
Page
I knew them
this
new little
So,
J:
you to
all.
But
they
d27
didn't
know m
girl.
what
happened
that
t?
nig
So,
she
too
New York--.
M: Hugh?
J:
York,
and
Continue
you went
M:
drank
to
"Miss
was
Mabel,
Miss
M bel,
"Down to
"To th
erry'?"
I says,
0
ook
h
mn
on
nd
y
0
the
on
I
on back.
oop w itin
hes
I think
tha
that's
te
tr
Wher~ did
you
o?"
rible.
ible-
you
ferry.•·
0
Bu
N w York.
w
erry
cross.
e
ne d no
idn'
d.
r
y
C
i
r brou
y
h
r.
was a
h r
s,
mma
s
l
m
brought
very
worn n
0
she
's
no--y
r n
fo
it
his
0
N w
"Y s. •·
w sn'
n
e
T
e girls.
I s ys,
he
I think
Mabel,
whi
you to
me some wine.
sitting
Puss
with
She took
She gave
o'clock,
Pickle
Miss
Now,
story.
Did nothing.
By twelve
You know,
ing ou
your
a cabaret--.
Yeah.
some wine.
for me.
Miss Mabel,
with
H
r
y
Mabel
Hampton
she
didn't
idea
of
mind
them
Now,
cut
Page
that
them
takin'
J:
me away with
have
to
work.
coming
good
hear
and
the
this
turned
want
to
in
asked
like
the
You've
got
I finds
her
from
me,
the
miss
me.
anything.
So,
Now
-
didn't
treat
me
And this
mornings
the
writes
daughter--her
could
some times
and
mornings
when
I didn't
for,
didn't
mind
I had
a thing.
and
in
So,
she
with
she
a very,
her
stay
a letter
and
with
Bedford.
in two weeks
stayed
up there
and
very,
very
Salem,
she
asks
North
was so glad
me could
she
name Margaret--send
me,
like
Winston
aunt--and
daughter's
to
for
I had been
myself
my aunt--young
she
to
on).
me for.
woman I worked
see
back
microphone.
her--especially
to
that.
woman--she
she
come
contact
possibly
there,
she'd
come--I
up there
not
off
into
And the
Margaret
that
didn't
time.
Carolina.
send
she
off.
now I don't
up there
Then
to
but
in between
whatever
I,
take
her
turned
anyhow,
her
and
it
talk
So,
I paid
girl
is
to
M:
white
Cut
Okay,
just--remember
right.
happened
now.
(Tape
Maud,
me.
something
off
takin'
d28
and
I did
that.
I said
time,
with
28
I could
nothing
the
me,
do what
I
tell
her
not
about
girl
and
Bedford--
arrived
I got
up
a room
Mabel
Hampton
right
with
now--but
"Now,
Page
Miss--I
I got
listen,
night."
can't
think
a room with
Margaret,
staying
out
stay
out
all
all
trouble.
woman's
And I told
cannot
Margaret
I says,
"Margaret,
night.
because
not
supposed
I will
to
name right
her,
go and
me that
night
I'm
her.
you
The woman told
of the
d29
stay
I said,
out
all
was going
and
you cannot
go and
go nowhere
get
myself
but
stay
go and
in
right
here."
the
So,
she
says,
So,
I took
girls--I
and
to
So,
very
like
Coney
one night,
to--let's
see,
up to--I
or
house,
and we stayed
come on back.
I says,
early."
all
dressed--she
So,
white
girl
been
out
go around--go
don't
in
day until
six
back,
in
We went
New York
it
or
her
and we
was Gladys
We went
seven
to
and we
wasn't
to
her
o'Clock.
dressed
Margaret
around
29
day.
got
I told
'til
me home early--
know if
made love--we
come in
New York.
the
was an actress.
funny.
They would
brought
half
with
who had
out.
is
We were
when I gets
"Now that's
She didn't
Island
was--I
It
went
Coney
we go.
it
she'd
of my friends
and they
the
someplace.
Then we got
So,
that,
where'd
Bently
So,
up a couple
we'd
think
"
then.
Island.
early--because
went
easy
called
daughters
sneak
it
"Alright.
be home
one o'clock.
home.
up
Mabel
Hampton
I said,
"Oh,
the
Page
"Margaret,
I called
where
some of
were
the
you?
girls,
Where
and
d30
were
we just
you?"
went
to
movies."
I said,
She
"You goes
to
"Yeah,
they
says,
"Alright,
have
to
send
So,
the
movies
on Sundays?"
wanted
to
it
happen
let
go to
the
movie."
again
'cause
and,
while
I'll
home."
morning,
I went
called
me on the
girl
your
don't
you back
next
white
seen
but
the
onto
work
phone
and
says,
working,
"Mabel,
I
niece.
"Seen
who?"
"Yes,"
she
I said,
She
said,
"Are
says,
"I
you
seen
your
niece
in
a cabaret."
sure?"
"Yes,
and
"Alright.
"
some more
women was there
with
her."
I says,
So,
"Where
when
were
She
you
says,
I said,
"Oh,
get
they
time,
a'hold
of her
next
morning,
I says,
yesterday?"
"Mabel,
"Where
I said,
one more
I did
do the
live
went
friends
downtown
"Alright."
you
I just
visit
some friends."
live?"
here."
I said,
go home to
to
"If
your
30
you go to
mother
'cause
Coney
Island
I can't
be
Mabel
Hampton
worryin'
Page
over
think--was
that.]
your
her
and
troubles
and mine
name Mitchell?
she'll
No.
be telling
too.
It
somebody
d31
And Miss----
was something
~hat
I'm
[I
like
steering
you
wrong."
"No,
I won't
Alright,
and
get
says,
I'm
go."
she
me in
didn't
the
car
"Alright."
gonna
that
So,
when the
-
afternoon,
She says,
white
I told
"Now, Aunt,
girl
her.
I don't
come
So,
she
know what
do."
I says,
over
go.
"You see,
I can't
make love
to
her
and watch
you too."
"So,"
she
says,
So,
I asked
her
when
where
"I' 11 see
she
she
got
what
dressed
happens."
to
go,
about
six
o'clock,
goin'.
"Downtown."
So,
gray
into
into
New York.
because
So,
there
she
Coney
was in
of that,
She followed
car.
tunnel
her
instead
Island.
Coney
I said,
her
See,
wasn't
didn't
the
call
So,
white
right
girl
straight
she
could
as many cars
me then.
then
followed
she
Island.
"Okay."
31
on through
easily
keep
as there
She waited
called
her
in her
the
up with
are
today.
until
they
got
me that
she
and told
,
Mabel
Hampton
So,
she
Page
says,
I said,
because
"What
shall
"No because
I'm
I do?
she
packin'
her
says,
"Alright.
gonna
grip
and
Keep tabs
keep
tabs
send1n'
d32
on her?"
on herself
her
home in the
mornin'."
So she
"
She
says,
"When am I gonna
see
you."
I said,
So,
for
her
says,
"Tomorrow
sho'
to
'nough,
stayin'
out
Margaret's
She came
in
grip
'round
and waited
I
two o'clock.
show good?"
said,
"Yeah,
I says,
"
I packed
come in.
"Was the
She
night.
"Don't
there
it
was alright.
tell
with
I missed
me you missed
the
boys
the
and with
the
bus.
the
bus."
You were
girls
in
Coney
Island."
"Who you had
me watched
I says,
I didn't
yourself
your
"No,
watched."
mother.
I have
go home tomorrow
So,
couldn't
that
called
I packed
take
it
I had her,
the
So,
white
have
I says,
money.
mornin'
the
I could
you watched.
"Alright,
I '11
send
You had
you can
go home to
you back
home.
You
."
rest
because,
girl
[by]?"
of her
you
get
and
see,
things.
if these
in trouble.
she
come over
32
She cried,
So,
people
that
and got
I
but
found
night
me and
out
I
...
Mabel
Hampton
Margaret
to
Page
take
and
Margaret's
them
down to
Winston-Salem,
So,
then
So,
the
just
I says,
"Well,
girl
you
"The
do you
"Let
think
doing."
So,
door,
and
we pulls
away.
myself
through,
Mabel,
your
"Now,
you
house--she
on it,
I gets
and
in
the
I didn't
get
sleepin'
So,
we made
love,
we talked,
we drank,
dressed,
in
the
w iting
up for
"That
investigator
morning
me.
says.
woman,
I know it.
says,
"You got
She
runnin'
says,
you what
front
of
back
until
two
the
white
we had
to
girl.
to
City.
a nerve."
·•And I'm
the
It
My friend
was
She
says,
Bum, bum,
a·ound
with
going
ps
out
the
door
and went
33
o Maud.
bum,
a white
to
t 11
er.
, I st
I
something
Jersey
you was doin'.
"You are
"
you what
in
with
come back
knew what
she
tell
when we come back.
She
b m, bum,"
I'll
car
I was
and
I' 11 tell
doing?"
'cause
n
to
through."
woman in
says,
of
me sleep
I'm
w s three
on back
we went
make."
She
think
Okay.
her
"You ain't
you
"Uhugh."
I says,
eat,
sent
and
"Yeah?"
What
o'clock
everything,
now I'm
says,
move that
says,
do.
and
says,
She
I says,
and
train
Carolina.
white
every
She
the
North
beginning."
watches
clothes
d33
I says,
Mabel
Page
Hampton
"Maud,
I've
room.
Can your
She
hand
got
a few
husband
says,
"Yes,
of
take
furniture
and
stuff
will
anything
in
that
it?"
my husband
take
that
you
out."
"I'm
"Fine."
So,
leaving
here
She
says,
I says,
getting
goin'
up the
white
girl,
tomorrow
mornin'
for
Bedford
"Well,
girl!
you
and
What
realize,
I don't
intend
I says,
''Tomorrow
mornin'
at
"Oh,
right,
I'll
comin',
and
"She
"You've
b
"No.
I'm old
h
o,
o'cloc
nd
pu
1
i
I
m i
who she's
ain't
up
got
I
loves
got
nobody
six
Hills."
talkin'
about?"
I'm
not
there."
you
goin'?"
o'clock."
be there--'cause
~
don't
I'm
know I'm
up there."
u
there."
months.
You say
she
you."
bre
alk up
d
r g --o
z .
So Maud's
"Al 1 righ
nd pick
his
eight
I says,
there."
I can
s y
stay
and
old,
When are
almost
Sh
now,
right.
my sweetie.
n goin'
nobody
I sys,
see
see
I says,
got
all
and
I'll
"All
you
getting
to
she
says,
says,
are
I'm
"Well,"
up there
ain't
I called
"My God,
young,
She
C
pieces
d34
h t
stor
3
husb
nd
ew
hin
., I had
g
ous
wh
m
C
n
V
r
Y
ov r
Mabel
Hampton
So,
Page
she
come down,
"Where
"I'm
goin'
to
do you
think
Miss--"
I says,
"What
name,
but
I can't
Well,
think.
to
get
anyhow,
She can
You knew me for
runnin'
She
I didn't
tell
her
in them
on that
nothin'
but
part
And at
get
it.
the
a cord
end
After
tassels
act
woman's
what
she
I don't
belong
turn
and
the
care
please.
I don't
folks
that
belong
to
nobody.
me in?"
like
what
cabaretin'
you do,
."
cabaretin'?"
type."
I'd
met
all
the
big
shots
[sic]
in
few months.
me.
sleeves,
around
of the
rope,
you pull
so
it,
It
and
the
material.
and
I had that
I was dressing.
short
of the
the
she
you would
was made for
with
goin'?"
Okay."
I dressed--then
it,
I don't
you're
right.
hem in
pull
"'cause
"All
dress
"Yes.
When you
white
I says,
So,
my life!
"How do you know I'm
says,
New York
from
with
what's
save
you.
and
I would.
around
I says,
to
years,
"Certainly
to
glory,
anything
belong
you're
New York."
I says,
think
I don't
her.
it
do you think
d35
was grey;
it
had
it
string--it
waist,
and the
You pulled
it
it
had
then
'em on.
[hennah]
you get
And around
35
had
cord
same
a deep
had
was pulled
and made a rope.
tassels.
the
You
tassels.
a part
of the
You
Mabel
Hampton
sleeve
had
there
Page
was--everything
a round
neck,
few back--and
like
I could
But
cap
then
[hennah],
that.
little
and
make
I put
that
on.
says,
"Yes,
ma'am.
So,
says,
"Take
"Thank
Meantime,
and
there
talkin'
to
this
home I was
payed
more
white
women.
So,
looked
than
at
I had
this
of hell.
all
I said,
we took
I put
that
to
New York?"
on the
white
woman
woman--she
around
up--packed
done
with
up--together,
guy.
up with
this
"Bye,
bye."
Then
stoop
And this
be a fall
car,
I see
car.
Maud.
When I
I gave
Maud
gone.
we come right
And,
A
came up on the
with.
danced
grey
says.
on a cap.
I was runnin'
pulled
she
she
this
do was to
And we were
Well,
I lived
girl
this
good.
New York."
woman sittin'
white
"Be careful,"
a kiss.
to
to
me that
attention--that
it
goin'
too
of yourself."
in was tellin'
She had
you're
it
I will."
told
woman that
tassel.
a
a thread
describe
I put
It
that--turn
and
down--a
off
care
was a white
whose
all
I'm
you.
Maud had
stoop,
"So,
like
[hennah],
can't
comin'
(Demonstrates).
a sleeve
but
I says,
So I says,
had
it
a thing
And she
she
it
[hennah],
anyhow,
with
on my head.
so that
was grey.
d36
the
on through
New York
like
a bat
highway.
We took
the
highway,
36
out
we
T
Mabel
took
Hampton
the
time.
low way--oh,
She
there
was
went
right
Didn't
Page
had
brought
some
for
me to
nothin'
on in
even
need
boy--and
'cause
I sung.
We just
sandwiches
do but
she
and
to
no passport.
They
had
a lovely
things.
settle
knew how to
d37
And
back.
go into
didn't
And we
Bedford.
ask
her
no
questions.
She
one
of
went
your
on and
lost
He says,
We told
this
out
here.
him the
story.
You can
stay
I said
are
treat
as
to
long
I had
met
we won't
as
myself,
you
"Here's
here?"
tell
nothin'
about
I just
nothin'.
me right,
a couple
say
says,
man.
doing
home or
want,
"That
She
this
I didn't
woman didn't
"Well,
to
you
back
which
front.
says
Margaret
lady,
He says,
up in
she
what
him this
and
sheeps,"
"Mabel,
Margaret--sendin'
told
pulled
and
I got
lonely,
times,
brought
anything
at
about
and
a good
of
take
man knows
all
me
it.
"
rest.
I need
something.
a
:
rest."
myself.
left.
to
see
at
all.
called
So,
I changed,
I had a cot
in
boy,
what
I was doin'--hear
this
Sunday,
woman called
investigator
they
gave
there.
But,
This
next
and
And some of
they
were
my story.
in--the
and
me a little
told
37
comin'
what
by
women had
up there
Nobody
woman I'd
her
the
cottage
said
lived
just
nothin'
with--
I had done and
Mabel
that
Hampton
Page
I was runnin'
blah,
blah,
blah.
supervisor
So,
up there,
laughed.
They
word.
around
I went
and havin'
and kiss
each
So,
tired.
But
stayed.
with
a girl
and we'd
take
the
said
at
all.
They
wife
didn't
cookin'
girls
showed
me how to
as the
about
say
their
see.
the
girl
all
go walkin'
other
woman,
have
as
long
I hadn't
up there,
other
just
as
her
in the
and they'd
of got
just
as soon
I wanted,
ready
And this
hug
a ball.
I kind
got
with
make wine.
'cause
white
I was
girl
and see
woods,
and
see.
all
go back
know--I
just
would
her
And then
to
New
York.
So,
or
one
something,
said,
"Pooh,
New York."
back
to
day,
something--!
although
pooh,
So,
New York
a
meals,
and we would
to me--I'd
stay
So,
lord,
a month,
anything
ready.
come up and bring
this
house,
me I could
goin'
to
blah,
Him and his
and we would
nobody
I got
back
their
I was there
went
it
nothin'
of the
other,
leave
she'd
say
We was drunk
He told
friend,
reported
blah,
time.
one
after
men and blah,
and he laughed.
on cleanin'
And then,
wine.
she
didn't
a good
We drank
with
d38
I was lovin'
pooh,
I told
don't
pooh,
the
pooh.
supervisor
soon.
38
a girl
I want
that
up there,
to
I'd
got
lonely
but
go back
to
like
go
to
I
Mabel
Hampton
Page
He said,
fifteen
"All
minutes,
I said,
right.
you
"Oh,
When you
can
I can
get
get
ready,
d39
teJ.l
me.
In
ready."
get
ready
in
about
two or three
minutes."
He laughed.
So,
little
we was
short
sudden,
pants.
somebody
investigator.
head
back
This
is
you've
been
and
the
<loin'
"I
jail.
time,
and
all
of a
recognize
of me.
down.
on
I say,
this
I throwed
my
"Oh, my God.
of
a long
me you was here?
time
and
lookin'
for
didn't
And
tell
I see
you.
me.
you've
places."
a bad
girl
even
knew you wasn't."
He's
almost
when
I started
She says,
dead.
They'll
"But
kill
out."
that
him soon.
"yeah."
the
his
so hot
many people
front
you tell
New York
"I wasn't
I says,
up--send
over
right
says,
She's
I had
I didn't
in
up and
nothin'.
a good
wall.
right
her
a hell
all
I said,
in
stood
"Why didn't
here
runnin'
guy's
doin'
investigator."
been
She
come up the
looked
says,
<loin'
up there
We was havin'
She
the
She
I'm
sittin'
one who told
wife
up--for
herself
'cause
up she
shouldn't
me he'd
money,
even
you
she's
have
39
send
see.
his
mother
And Judgie
done
told
sent
up--and
wasn't
on too--sent
they
were
too
on
Mabel
her
Hampton
Page
tail.
So,
after
that
she
'(inaudible)"--called
down there.
to
d40
We had
And so,
I'll
she
been
tell
there's
"Come on down to
him by his
He laughed,
drink.
You've
said,
for
girl,
you what
I'm
That's
all
I wanted
more.
I'd
be
in
ice
to
you.
New York.
something
in my debt.
is
you'll
So,
and
She
This
I did
And he went
of hours.
do.
morning,
hear.
cream
no longer
I like
going
to
us
"You're
and
Tuesday
name too.
a couple
now,
a good
Monday.
he gave
a ball
says
first
be
not
"Now,
Sunday.
Then
in New York."
want
that's
says,
to
hear
any
why I waited
to
leave.
So,
Monday morning,
"goodbye,"
and
And they
went
[Muriel]
says,
in here
they
I says,
"I
guess
So,
the
says,
"Now,
young
woman.
toast
"I never
the
all
me.
on down there
and turn
women likes
they
got
I was high
and waved
knew a girl
place
up and they
upside
bid
me
as a Georgia
and waved
who--a
down."
at
pine.
me.
woman--could
She says,
come
"These
you.
"I
like
'em all.
you're
car
to
me.
right."
pulls
I hope
They belong
up.
the
you all
have
She said,
"Treat
investigator
learned
everybody
40
got
a lesson
right,
out.
from
She
this
and you'll
Mabel
get
Page
Hampton
treated
yourself."
So we get
Oh boy,
all
in
didn't
them
the
car
We had
something
to
And,
where
wanna
you
eat.
three
take
the
me,
'cause
find
a job.
she
So,
anything--!
that
it
on back.
bridge
a w--and
she
and
We raced.
the
stopped
was Tuesday.
white
girl
had
to
a week
went
tunnel
and
So,
very
good,
I had
nice
lookin'
there
and
a couple
end
care
of
had
a job
she
and
gave
me
says,
at
me where
that
"Now,
of
So,
other
off
that's
to
I had
to
keep
me to
do
I wasn't
End of
41
I couldn't
bad
happened
places--
here.
woman and
and
[Alhambra].
what
was
with
white
business,
nothing
the
she
apartment
of the
I made believe.
hair.
cuts
at
was the
later--1
but
told
See,
take
a got
dance
(Tape
had
you know.
And that
rooms
See,
we went
live?"
Of course,
to
and
we go through
things.
going
d41
transcript).
lookin'.
I went
I.
.,.
INTERVIEW WITH MABEL HAMPTON
(M)*
Interviewer:
Joan
J:
taping.
Nestle
--Story.
This
Now remember,
you
is
the
second
your
last
words
were:
left
your
uncle,
and
Greenwich
Village,
went
the
subway
M:
A new world.
into
(J)
and
came out
Later
in
day
of
the
you
left
a new world--you
a new world.
I learned
it
was Grove
Street.
*
The second
side of this
tape ends with the beginning
of Mabel's
story
of Bedford
Hills.
Hence,
it precedes
the
transcript
whose page numbers
are preceded
by the letter
e.
Also,
Joan indicates
that
it is the second
in a series
of
tapes--the
first
of which evidently
ended with Mabel's
escape
to Jersey
City from Greenwich
Village.
It seems this
particular
tape has not yet been transcribed,
although
the
first
transcript,
indicated
by page numbers with no
preceding
letters,
does include
part
of this
story.
If this
first
tape is found,
its
order
in the series
will
be
indicated
in a footnote
on the first
page.
(SA)
.1
II
Mabel
the
Hampton
J:
Where?
M:
In Jersey--I
time.
wonder
Page
And I didn't
what
I was
gonna
they
put
can
Well,
or
read
So,
to
white
other
to
I say .
us.
Tell
children--
to
the
sixth--grade,
Because,
if
you do,
cross.
I don't
school.
let
Don't
know anything.
to
walk.
was Grove
people.
*
grade.
I began
twenty
- -------·--·-
I began
at
but
know if
I went
to
I was in the
*
school.
And I
and write.
That
walk
City
old.
you up against
sixth--five
walk.
anything-
I went
would
why I tell
M: That's
hear
Then
go.
you again?
were
years
Eight
children
say--what
to
was Jersey
on eight.
M: Goin'
J:
know it
know where
How old
.._T:
could
didn't
f2
Now, the
Street.
description
To get
to
I seen
blocks
or more.
I seen
a few colored
where
the
people.
----- ------- --·------------·--------------·
f3he couldn't
However,
the
accounts.
of where
I was,
people
White
2
I had
walkin'-people.
----
be eight
and in the sixth
or even
"eight
years
old" seems consistent
(SA)
I
fifth
with
Mabel
Hampton
And I came
Jersey
to
City
a hospital,
cops
walking
I found
later
f3
out
was
the
[H]hospital.*
I walked
of
which
Page
past
that
I kept
and
I wouldn't
and
things.
and
walking
walkin'.
ask
nobody
I could--I
and
I seen
must
a coup"!.e
I kept
anything.
have
walked
about
an
-
Then,
hour.
straight
or
all
of
going
a sudden--it
on down the
was
a straight
walk--
I didn't
street.
turn
no curners
nothin'.
All
of
a sudden,
I was on the
left.
Yes,
there,
I seen
b•::!tween
was
onl:. later.
didn't
or
children
the
ages
And,
have
So,
went
says,
they
any
time
I go~s
something.
and
in.
-------
Sh
lefthand
in
of
to
side
of
the
eight,
and
playin',
I sits
ten
playin',
I didn't
play.
to
And
I f igurcd
as
know what
minutes,
to
where
a white
girl
all
playin',
down on something
and
my
street.
The children
a few
and
to
liku
a be1ch
then
I got
was
swingin'
So,
me and
she
she
put
m
pushed
in
the
swing,
me.
-- -
So,
She
---
th
o ly pu lie hospital
in Jers
h Jers y City Medical
C nter.
If this
i~,
in
it is ~o
ed on Summit
v u , m
label
ens,
J urnal S uar
th·n
G v
1 tiv
t
(
)
Today,
3
-
I
anJ
I 5aid
1
do.
swing?'
"Yes."
pushed
I looked
a playground.
seven,
were
and
there
on over
I says,
a noise
I sit
"You wanna
swung.
I heard
tJ
up
Mabel
Page
Hampton
myself,
"She's
She
nice."
came over
I says,
I
11
me here
"I
and
to
told
goin'
from.
me,
says,
aunt
"Your
aunt
me,
to
you hungry?"
I says,
"Uhugh."
So,
call
him
"Listen,
take
So,
he
her
go home to
have
get
to
Well,
was.
that's
time
Maybe
what
I came
a sudden
she
wait
here
her."
a little
says
his
get
for
more time."
think
I think
got
me.
to
it
She
was her
brother--
name was Tony.
this
kid
to
So,
her·--find
she
her
home."
says,
says,
her
brought
come back."
it
of
at?"
yet?"
brother--!
"Tony."
we've
and
must
her
she
time
live
my aunt
pushed
all
me to
give
"Are
called
she
come back
"We'll
she
until
So,
She told
do you
now 'cause
because
that.
"No.
'Where
know what
be out
hasn't
says,
She
that
She pushed
So I remember
She
she
here
had
I says,
says,
.stay
I don't
school--school
says,
know right
me to
fast.
She
me.
don't
"Alright."
was
f4
"Alright.
I' 11 see
"I'm
going
home.
been
after
six
something
to
you go after
the cop."
When I heard the word
what
It's
_getting
o'clock.
put
on her
"cop",
So,
do."
dark."
she
says,
and a sandwich,
I didn't
A
I can
like
that
See,
"I'll
and
idea.