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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                <text>Side A (mp3) http://herstory.prattsils.org/mp3_files/spw1146_A.mp3 Side B (mp3) http://herstory.prattsils.org/mp3_files/spw1146_B.mp3 Side A (wav) http://herstory.prattsils.org/wav_files/spw1146_A.wav Side B (wav) http://herstory.prattsils.org/wav_files/spw1146_B.wav</text>
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                <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Contact LHA at &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="mailto:dyv.lha@gmail.com"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;dyv.lha@gmail.com&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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&lt;h4&gt;&lt;a href="/mp3_files/SPW455_PAT_A.wav.mp3" target="_blank"&gt;Download Side A&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&#13;
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                <text>Side A: Pat talks about her childhood in North Port, N.Y., her relationship with her parents and siblings. She goes into detail about her estranged relationship with her older sister. She describes when she first knew that she was a lesbian and tells the history of her relationships with women. She starts with her first affair at age 13, with a nun from her Catholic school - Sister Eugenie - to a relationship she had with Maryann (Marty). She describes her time at nursing school in Niagara Falls, N.Y., and the gay bars she frequented until she moved to Florida with her then girlfriend. She says she moved to Buffalo, N.Y., in the late 1950s, and describes the Buffalo bar scene, mentioning Dingles, Mardi Gras, the Chesterfield, the Carousel and the Carol Hotel. Pat mentions that the Carousel was very elite, something she did not like. This leads her into a discussion on â€œrole playâ€ and how important it was to distinguish oneself as either a butch or a femme. She classified herself as butch, but stated that she was very uncomfortable with the label and now prefers to be less overt.&#13;
&#13;
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;strong&gt;Stella Rush&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;Stella Rush was born on April 30, 1925 in Los Angeles, CA. She briefly worked for Firestone Tire and Rubber and was a member of the ACLU. Stella Rush and Helen Sandoz met and fell for each other at a ONE Inc. meeting in Los Angeles in 1957. Del and Phyllis encouraged Sandoz to keep an eye on Rush and make sure she got to the Daughters of Bilitis meetings. Rush started with The Ladder in 1957. She wrote “reports of conferences, seminars and research” for both ONE Magazine and The Ladder. She eventually wrote poetry for The Ladder as well. Stella Rush and Helen Sandoz moved in with each other in 1958. Rush was the Los Angeles Daughters of Bilitis co-founder. When the Los Angeles chapter began, Rush was the first treasurer, a position she held for 6 years. She helped the Daughters of Bilitis connect with organizations ONE and Mattachine. Her final meeting was the convention in Denver in 1968. Rush became very angry when Grier continued sending Sandoz articles and assignments to Sandoz when Sandoz had already quit The Ladder. In 1969, “we had huge fights about that,” she says. “After Denver, we had promised each other that it was our time for ourselves.” That summer they retired from activism. Stella Rush survived Helen Sandoz and lives in Southern California. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Helen Sandoz&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Helen Sandoz, Stella Rush’s partner, was born on November 2, 1920 in Oregon. After receiving her Bachelor's Degree, she had a supervisory position in department stores in Washington and Oregon. She later became a sign painter because of an accident that would not let her sit for a long time. She discovered the Daughters of Bilitis when she moved to San Francisco. “Sandy” joined the Daughters of Bilitis in 1956, when she also became “Assistant to the Editor” of The Ladder.” When the Daughters of Bilitis received its charter in 1957, Sandy was one of those who signed. She worked for The Ladder and the Daughters of Bilitis for fifteen years, designing covers and reporting on conventions. She became president of the Daughters of Biltis in February 1957. She was also the first president of the Los Angeles Daughters of Bilitis Chapter. She was briefly editor of The Ladder in 1966. She helped Jaffy publicize a study of ‘Attitudes of Mental Health Professionals Toward Homosexuality and Its Treatment’. She wanted nothing to do with NOW, whose goals she applauded, but not their rhetoric. She concentrated on getting rights for both gay men and lesbians. At the end of 1968, she spoke up about supporting “civil rights for all people,” not just homosexuals. “Despite her years of experience in the homophile movement, Sandoz articulated a belief in individual and human rights that crossed generational, racial and sexual lines.” Sandoz died of lung cancer on June 7, 1987 in Anaheim. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;**Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp;amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Saunders, J.M. Stella Rush a.k.a. Sten Russell (1925- ) online. Rush, S. Helen Sandoz a.k.a. Helen Sanders a.k.a. Ben Cat (1920-1987) online</text>
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                  <text>&lt;strong&gt;Del Martin&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Del Martin (Dorothy Erma Corn) was born on May 5, 1921 in San Francisco. After studying journalism, Martin met Phyllis Lyon on a reporting job in Seattle in 1950 and moved in together in San Francisco in February of 1953. In September 1955, a woman named Rose Bamberger approached Del and Phyllis to inquire about starting a club for lesbians—it would be the first of its kind in the U.S.—a social and political club for lesbians. The founders agreed to name it after “Song of Bilitis,” the collective title for Pierre Louys’s poems about lesbian sexuality. Martin was its first president in 1955, national president from 1957-1960, and editor of DOB’s publication, The Ladder, from 1960-1962. She and Lyon started the first DOB national convention in 1960. As Martin stated, the Daughters of Bilitis were "fighting the church, the couch, and the courts.” She and Lyon pushed for legislation reform at a time when homosexuals were criminalized. In 1964, they created the Council on Religion and the Homosexual (CRH). One of Martin’s most famous writings in The Ladder was “If That’s All There Is,” a 1970 piece against sexism in the gay rights movement. Members of the National Organization for Women since 1967, Martin and Lyon worked to combat homophobia within NOW in 1971 and 1973. Martin was elected to NOW’s board of directors as the first out lesbian. DOB folded in 1970, but two years later, Lyon and Martin published their famous Lesbian/Woman. They also started the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club in 1972, “the first gay political club in the United States.” Martin’s hard work over the years resulted in the American Psychiatric Association’s 1973 decision that homosexuality was not an illness. She attacked domestic violence in Battered Wives in 1976 and catalyzed a movement and the creation of several organizations combatting domestic violence. She was also chair of the San Francisco Commission on the Status of Women from 1976-1979. She and Lyon were lifelong members of the American Civil Liberties Union. They were members of numerous other organizations including in 1989 Old Lesbians Organizing for Change. In 1987, Del received a Doctorate from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. A documentary about Martin and Lyon was released in 2003. After their 2004 marriage was declared null, they married again in May 2008. Del Martin died on August 27, 2008 in San Francisco. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Phyllis Lyon&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Phyllis Lyon was born on November 10, 1924 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She earned a B.A. in journalism at the University of California at Berkeley. She was the secretary in the newly formed Daughters of Bilitis in 1955, and she edited The Ladder from 1956 to 1960. In 1957, Lyon famously did away with her pen name, Ann Ferguson, editing the magazine under her real name. Lyon worked at the Glide Foundation and the National Sex and Drug Forum (1968), where she did workshops and wrote and distributed lesbian-positive sex education materials. She helped found the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in 1976. She fought against the banning of gay and lesbian teachers in 1978. She engaged in numerous other activities with her partner, Del Martin. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Citations:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Martin_and_Phyllis_Lyon. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp;amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, June 17). Couple of 55 years tie the knot—again. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, August 28). Lesbian rights pioneer Del Martin dies at 87. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Graff, E.J. (2012, April 25). The Queer List, Part 1: Del Martin and Phyllis Lyons. The Queer List. Retrieved from http://prospect.org/article/queer-list-part-1-del-martin-and-phyllis-lyons. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Health Services Lyon Martin. Remembering Del Martin. Retrieved from http://lyon-martin.org/about-us/the-lyon-martin-story/remembering-del-martin/. Lgbt history month. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://lgbthistorymonth.com/del-martin-phyllis-lyon?tab=biography. Lyon, P. (2009, May 26). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-Sex Marriage: An Oral History: ‘It never was much of an issue for us.’ Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com. May, M. (2010, February 11). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-sex-marriage trailblazer Phyllis Lyon. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;National Organization for Women. Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Make History Again. Retrieved from http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/021304lyon-martin.html. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Religious Archives Network. Profile: Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://www.lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?ID=124.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                <text>The interview begins with Lois Johnson, who discusses when she realized that she was a lesbian, which caused her to move out to California and take a job in journalism.  It was there that she met a woman who eventually became her lover, and they used to play music together.  Sheri Barden talks about her social life after she met Lois Johnson, though she did like to party with her landlord, who was also a lesbian, though these social affairs pretty much came to an end when her relationship began with Lois.&#13;
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Barbara Grier was born on November 4, 1933 in Cincinnati, OH.  Her affiliation with the Daughters of Bilitis began in 1957, when she started to subscribe to The Ladder.  Shortly thereafter she began writing book reviews for the publication, then served as poetry and fiction editor from 1966-1968, when she became the editor-in-chief.  In this role, Grier included news stories, essays, prose and poetry that focused on the burgeoning women’s movement.  When the DOB folded in 1970, she and DOB President Rita Lapore continued to publish The Ladder until this ceased in 1972, for financial reasons.&#13;
&#13;
Grier met Donna McBride, the reference librarian at the Kansas City, MO public library and Grier's eventual partner, in 1971.  McBride first knew Grier as a library patron who made frequent and numerous recommendations of books of lesbian interest that she wanted the library to buy.  In January 1973, Grier and McBride, started Naiad Press,  the “world’s largest [and foremost and longest-lived] publisher of lesbian books” -- by lesbians, about lesbians and for lesbians.  It included romance novels, histories, erotica, volumes of poetry, science fiction and self-help guides, as well as mysteries, non-fiction and classics.  Prior to Naiad, “lesbian literature was primarily written by men whose protagonists generally ended up in one of two ways: they married a man or killed themselves.”  Grier and McBride kept their day jobs until 1982, when Naiad became their full-time work.  In 1995 Grier donated her “Lesbiana" collection to the James C. Hormel Gay and Lesbian Center of the San Francisco Public Library.”  Bella Books took over when Grier closed Naiad Press in 2005.  &#13;
&#13;
Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;strong&gt;Del Martin&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Del Martin (Dorothy Erma Corn) was born on May 5, 1921 in San Francisco. After studying journalism, Martin met Phyllis Lyon on a reporting job in Seattle in 1950 and moved in together in San Francisco in February of 1953. In September 1955, a woman named Rose Bamberger approached Del and Phyllis to inquire about starting a club for lesbians—it would be the first of its kind in the U.S.—a social and political club for lesbians. The founders agreed to name it after “Song of Bilitis,” the collective title for Pierre Louys’s poems about lesbian sexuality. Martin was its first president in 1955, national president from 1957-1960, and editor of DOB’s publication, The Ladder, from 1960-1962. She and Lyon started the first DOB national convention in 1960. As Martin stated, the Daughters of Bilitis were "fighting the church, the couch, and the courts.” She and Lyon pushed for legislation reform at a time when homosexuals were criminalized. In 1964, they created the Council on Religion and the Homosexual (CRH). One of Martin’s most famous writings in The Ladder was “If That’s All There Is,” a 1970 piece against sexism in the gay rights movement. Members of the National Organization for Women since 1967, Martin and Lyon worked to combat homophobia within NOW in 1971 and 1973. Martin was elected to NOW’s board of directors as the first out lesbian. DOB folded in 1970, but two years later, Lyon and Martin published their famous Lesbian/Woman. They also started the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club in 1972, “the first gay political club in the United States.” Martin’s hard work over the years resulted in the American Psychiatric Association’s 1973 decision that homosexuality was not an illness. She attacked domestic violence in Battered Wives in 1976 and catalyzed a movement and the creation of several organizations combatting domestic violence. She was also chair of the San Francisco Commission on the Status of Women from 1976-1979. She and Lyon were lifelong members of the American Civil Liberties Union. They were members of numerous other organizations including in 1989 Old Lesbians Organizing for Change. In 1987, Del received a Doctorate from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. A documentary about Martin and Lyon was released in 2003. After their 2004 marriage was declared null, they married again in May 2008. Del Martin died on August 27, 2008 in San Francisco. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Phyllis Lyon&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Phyllis Lyon was born on November 10, 1924 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She earned a B.A. in journalism at the University of California at Berkeley. She was the secretary in the newly formed Daughters of Bilitis in 1955, and she edited The Ladder from 1956 to 1960. In 1957, Lyon famously did away with her pen name, Ann Ferguson, editing the magazine under her real name. Lyon worked at the Glide Foundation and the National Sex and Drug Forum (1968), where she did workshops and wrote and distributed lesbian-positive sex education materials. She helped found the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in 1976. She fought against the banning of gay and lesbian teachers in 1978. She engaged in numerous other activities with her partner, Del Martin. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Citations:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Martin_and_Phyllis_Lyon. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp;amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, June 17). Couple of 55 years tie the knot—again. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, August 28). Lesbian rights pioneer Del Martin dies at 87. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Graff, E.J. (2012, April 25). The Queer List, Part 1: Del Martin and Phyllis Lyons. The Queer List. Retrieved from http://prospect.org/article/queer-list-part-1-del-martin-and-phyllis-lyons. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Health Services Lyon Martin. Remembering Del Martin. Retrieved from http://lyon-martin.org/about-us/the-lyon-martin-story/remembering-del-martin/. Lgbt history month. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://lgbthistorymonth.com/del-martin-phyllis-lyon?tab=biography. Lyon, P. (2009, May 26). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-Sex Marriage: An Oral History: ‘It never was much of an issue for us.’ Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com. May, M. (2010, February 11). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-sex-marriage trailblazer Phyllis Lyon. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;National Organization for Women. Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Make History Again. Retrieved from http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/021304lyon-martin.html. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Religious Archives Network. Profile: Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://www.lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?ID=124.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;strong&gt;Del Martin&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Del Martin (Dorothy Erma Corn) was born on May 5, 1921 in San Francisco. After studying journalism, Martin met Phyllis Lyon on a reporting job in Seattle in 1950 and moved in together in San Francisco in February of 1953. In September 1955, a woman named Rose Bamberger approached Del and Phyllis to inquire about starting a club for lesbians—it would be the first of its kind in the U.S.—a social and political club for lesbians. The founders agreed to name it after “Song of Bilitis,” the collective title for Pierre Louys’s poems about lesbian sexuality. Martin was its first president in 1955, national president from 1957-1960, and editor of DOB’s publication, The Ladder, from 1960-1962. She and Lyon started the first DOB national convention in 1960. As Martin stated, the Daughters of Bilitis were "fighting the church, the couch, and the courts.” She and Lyon pushed for legislation reform at a time when homosexuals were criminalized. In 1964, they created the Council on Religion and the Homosexual (CRH). One of Martin’s most famous writings in The Ladder was “If That’s All There Is,” a 1970 piece against sexism in the gay rights movement. Members of the National Organization for Women since 1967, Martin and Lyon worked to combat homophobia within NOW in 1971 and 1973. Martin was elected to NOW’s board of directors as the first out lesbian. DOB folded in 1970, but two years later, Lyon and Martin published their famous Lesbian/Woman. They also started the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club in 1972, “the first gay political club in the United States.” Martin’s hard work over the years resulted in the American Psychiatric Association’s 1973 decision that homosexuality was not an illness. She attacked domestic violence in Battered Wives in 1976 and catalyzed a movement and the creation of several organizations combatting domestic violence. She was also chair of the San Francisco Commission on the Status of Women from 1976-1979. She and Lyon were lifelong members of the American Civil Liberties Union. They were members of numerous other organizations including in 1989 Old Lesbians Organizing for Change. In 1987, Del received a Doctorate from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. A documentary about Martin and Lyon was released in 2003. After their 2004 marriage was declared null, they married again in May 2008. Del Martin died on August 27, 2008 in San Francisco. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Phyllis Lyon&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Phyllis Lyon was born on November 10, 1924 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She earned a B.A. in journalism at the University of California at Berkeley. She was the secretary in the newly formed Daughters of Bilitis in 1955, and she edited The Ladder from 1956 to 1960. In 1957, Lyon famously did away with her pen name, Ann Ferguson, editing the magazine under her real name. Lyon worked at the Glide Foundation and the National Sex and Drug Forum (1968), where she did workshops and wrote and distributed lesbian-positive sex education materials. She helped found the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in 1976. She fought against the banning of gay and lesbian teachers in 1978. She engaged in numerous other activities with her partner, Del Martin. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Citations:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Martin_and_Phyllis_Lyon. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp;amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, June 17). Couple of 55 years tie the knot—again. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, August 28). Lesbian rights pioneer Del Martin dies at 87. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Graff, E.J. (2012, April 25). The Queer List, Part 1: Del Martin and Phyllis Lyons. The Queer List. Retrieved from http://prospect.org/article/queer-list-part-1-del-martin-and-phyllis-lyons. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Health Services Lyon Martin. Remembering Del Martin. Retrieved from http://lyon-martin.org/about-us/the-lyon-martin-story/remembering-del-martin/. Lgbt history month. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://lgbthistorymonth.com/del-martin-phyllis-lyon?tab=biography. Lyon, P. (2009, May 26). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-Sex Marriage: An Oral History: ‘It never was much of an issue for us.’ Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com. May, M. (2010, February 11). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-sex-marriage trailblazer Phyllis Lyon. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;National Organization for Women. Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Make History Again. Retrieved from http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/021304lyon-martin.html. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Religious Archives Network. Profile: Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://www.lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?ID=124.</text>
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&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
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Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
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Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
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Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
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Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
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Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="43968">
                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt; See the LHA Copyright Statement &lt;/a&gt;&#13;
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                <text>Pamela Oline is interviewed. She is heterosexual and talks about her path to and experience of being a member of DOB and campaigning for gay and lesbian rights. She describes her childhood growing up in England, moving to America when she was 14 and changing career from a mathematician and to a psychotherapist. Recognizing the psychological issues of the time, she decided to understand the lesbian community from the inside.  She talks about DOB meetings, lesbian and feminism issues, radical and conventional activism, marriage, and GAU (Gay Academic Union) meetings, panel discussions, etc.&#13;
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                <text>Marge speaks of the bars in Buffalo, NY in the 1950s, specifically Bingo's, Chesterfield, Dugan's, Mardi Gras, and Carousel, which had more of an established lesbian clientele.  She tells how Carousel changed from a lesbian to gay crowd in the late 1950s and eventually closed because of allowing "careless" behavior.  She felt patrons of gay bars in the 1950s were more respectful than at the time of the interview in 1980.  Marge was arrested for serving a minor female, which she felt was an attempt to close the bar where she worked.  The tape cuts off at the end of the second side.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt; See the LHA Copyright Statement&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&#13;
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                <text>Kennedy, E. L. &amp; Davis, M. D. (1993). Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: The History of a Lesbian Community. New York: Routledge</text>
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                <text>Lesbian Herstory Archives, Contact Designation: Maxine Wolfe, Contact Address: 484 14th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11215, Phone Number: 718-768-3953</text>
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Second wave feminism</text>
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                <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Contact LHA at &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="mailto:dyv.lha@gmail.com"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;dyv.lha@gmail.com&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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&lt;h4&gt;&lt;a href="/mp3_files/SPW456_MARYK_A.wav.mp3" target="_blank"&gt;Download Side A&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&#13;
&lt;h4&gt;&lt;a href="/mp3_files/SPW456_MARYK_B.wav.mp3" target="_blank"&gt;Download Side B&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;</text>
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&#13;
Side B: Continuing the conversation from Side A, Mary discusses in more detail the types of people she observed in the various bars in Buffalo, as well as her family.  She explains that she got along with her family, but never came out to them, in spite of which her father never questioned her about her relationships or pressured her to get married.   She also discusses the socio-economic status of various gay communities throughout Buffalo.  Both the interviewer and the interviewee discuss butch and femme identities within the larger context of the lesbian community in Buffalo.  Mary speaks in more detail about her social experiences. </text>
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          <element elementId="41">
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                <text>Women from ACT UP LA and some gay men who worked with them, attending the AIDS Clinical Trials Groups Meetings in Washington, D.C.</text>
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                <text>This is a tape of women from ACT UP LA (lesbian and heterosexual) and some gay men who worked with them, attending the AIDS Clinical Trials Groups Meetings in Washington, D.C. from November 3-November 5, 1992. It has footage of them in their hotel rooms , as well as footage of researcher meetings, the activists discussing what they have heard and the action they did at the Democratic Party Election Night Shindig, where they took over the stage with a banner that read "NO MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT, AIDS IS STILL A CRISIS" as Jesse Jackson was finishing his speech after the results showed that Clinton was elected. There is also footage of them planning their strategy for getting on stage of of them waiting for the perfect moment and celebrating afterwards. There is footage of them on the mall in the evening just having fun. There is also footage of them watching Bush concede (in their hotel room watching TV), of them finding out that Mary's boss is one of 50 people invited to attend a meeting with Clinton's staff re: AIDS on the following Saturday and of them preparing material for her, along with Iris Long (ACT UP NY) and Vic Hernandez (ACT UP NY).&#13;
&#13;
Most of the footage was taken either by Mary Lucey (an HIV-infected lesbian who was in ACT UP LA, on the ACT UP National Women's Committee, and later co-founded Women Alive in LA), Nancy McNiel (Mary's lover also in ACT UP LA, the National Women's Committee and co-founder of Women Alive), and Seh Welsch (a Native-American Lesbian who founded Santa Barbara ACT UP, was on the National Women's Committee and is the E.D. of the Indian Health Center in Santa Barbara). Also in the video are Vic Hernandez (a Mexican-American from the S.F. area but a member of ACT UP NY at the time) and Kyioshi Kurimyia (an Asian-American who was a member of ACT UP Philadelphia, and founded Critical Path, a newsletter about AIDS treatments, especially alternative and wholistic treatments), both of whom are gay men. Iris Long, a heterosexual woman who was an early member of ACT UP NY, a founder of its Treatment and Data Committee, one of the first pseople to document the exclusion of women from clinical trials, is also shown in the video. She is a pharmaceutical chemist (Ph.D.) who taught the men in ACT UP everything they knew about pharmaceutical chemistry and clinical treatment research.</text>
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                <text>Mary Lucey, Seh Welsch, and Nancy Mc Niel; Donated by Maxine Wolfe in 1993</text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>Maxine Wolfe&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Access to this material is restricted to contacting Maxine Wolfe prior to publication of any material for permission to use, quote, or paraphrase.</text>
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                    <text>Dyke TV Collection: Interview Transcript, Mary Patierno.
Date: 20 November 2016 over Skype (an application that provides video chat and voice call services).
Interviewee: Mary Patierno, co-founder and executive producer of Dyke TV
Interviewer: Amanda Belantara, student at Pratt Institute
Format: Recorded using AudioHijack. 48Khz, 24 bit, WAV.
Duration: 1 hour, 23 minutes, 31 Seconds
Abstract: In this interview Mary Patierno, co-founder and executive producer
of Dyke TV discusses Dyke TV, a groundbreaking public access program
produced by and for lesbians in New York City in the 1990s. Pateirno talks
about the program’s history and its goals. She mentions some of Dyke TV’s
important news stories and recollects some of the interviews the show
conducted with women artists, activists and public figures. Patierno stresses the
importance of preserving other Dyke TV footage that currently remains in
storage. She also describes the production and post-production process, the
ideas behind show segments and reflects on how she would like the show to be
remembered.
Background: This interview was recorded as part of Dr. Anthony Cocciolo’s
Moving Image and Sound Archives fall 2016 class at Pratt Institute’s School of
Information. The semester project involved digitizing and presenting Dyke TV
footage from the Lesbian Herstory Archives (LHA). Students sought out to
speak with Dyke TV producers in order to inform the introduction to the LHA’s
Dyke TV collection that would be placed on the LHA’s audiovisual collection
website

1 of 32

�Interview Start
00:00:00
AB: It's the 20th of November, and my name is Amanda Belantara a student at
Pratt Institute speaking with Mary
from Dyke TV via Skype from your home in Asheville…Massachusetts?
MP: Ashfield.
AB: Ashfield, Massachusetts. Thank you.
00:00:17
AB: And did I pronounce your name properly?
MP: You did. Patierno.
00:00:21
AB: OK great. So I was just hoping you could start off by saying you name
yourself stating you roll in Dyke TV
MP: OK. My name is Mary Patierno. I was one of three founders and original
executive producer, uh with Linda Chapman and Ana Maria Simo of Dyke TV.
00:00:45
MP: Dyke TV was a direct offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers. [coughs] Excuse
me I'm getting over a bad cold, so pardon me when I cough and hack.
AB: Oh, that's no problem. Would you mind saying that one more time?
MP: Sure. Dyke TV was an offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers which was... The
Avengers was founded in early 1992 and Anna Maria Simo was one of the
founders of The Avengers and she approached me and said We'd like to have
like a video wing of the Lesbian Avengers and this is similar to what ACT UP
did. ACT UP had sort of a video brigade called DIVA- damn independent video
activists.
00:01:36
2 of 32

�MP: And they made it their mission to like be videotaping as much as possible
from every angle at all the ACT-UP demonstrations. And I think I saw TV as
being sort of that. Like I always joke and say it was the propaganda wing of the
Lesbian Avengers. So she met with me because.. I... Ana is a playwright. Linda
Chapman is a play is a theater producer or she is actually an assistant artistic
director at The New York Theater Workshop now. And you know the three of
us basically organized... Well we met and we organized the first meetings
around Dyke TV to kind of brainstorm about how we might put something
together. There were a lot of documentary filmmakers slash activists who were
interested in participating and we had it as one of our big missions to train
women in video production. And so thats what we set about doing. The show
started as a weekly show which is amazing if you think about a predominantly
volunteer organization pulling off 30 minutes of broadcast, I say material every
every week. And we also have a distribution component that distributed the
show to where it needed to go over the week. Back then there wasn't the web so
we were literally sending tapes to Madison, Wisconsin and Albuquerque, New
Mexico. And you know even you know like West Orange, New Jersey or
wherever the stations were that were carrying the show we we would send to
tapes Weekly.
00:03:38
AB: That's a very very impressive to imagine just everybody pulling together to
make that all happen. Like you said 30 minutes every week. That's a big project.
MP: Yes. So...Yeah go ahead.
AB: I was just going to say maybe for news readers he might be discovering this
online for the first time and don't know what the Lesbian Avengers is. Could
you just talk a little bit more about what you hoped the goals of the program
would be and how you saw it coming together as a team in terms of what you
want viewers to take from it and get out of it.
00:04:14
MP: Well our tagline was television to incite, provoke and organize. And I think
that summed up the mission. I mean the only thing that wasn't included in that
tagline was to educate too. So we wanted to get people educated about what
was happening around the country and around the world about lesbians. You
3 of 32

�have to remember that this was an era not long ago where there wasn't one gay
person on television, not one. And so there wasn't a lot of... And if there was
visibility of gay people it was always a gay men so there was a real push to have
lesbian visibility increase and organize around lesbian and feminist ideas. So we...
You know like I said our, our well our motto was to incite provoke and organize.
We hope to incite people, provoke them into action and actually do something
and organize. To change to change you know, locally and federally and just
systemically people's views of lesbians and of gay rights and of women's rights.
AB: Yes, it's a very powerful message. I was doing a little bit of research on line
and I really liked that it says the founders sought to document rising lesbian
activism and to provide a viable platform for lesbian voices enter the realm of
popular culture. And do you feel that things have changed since the time of
time TV in terms of how lesbian culture is now presented in the popular
culture?
00:06:06
MP: Oh my oh yeah of course. I mean first there was Ellen and that was a very
you know a small step, but you know she was like this sitcom which started I
believe just a couple of years after Dyke TV came came into being. And when I
had a show where she was basically closeted and at one point maybe in the
second season or third season she came out. Well the next season she was
canceled. So even at that time was early 90s there wasn't room for a lesbian
voice in mainstream culture. And now, I mean you look it's a totally different
situation.
There are lesbian characters in so many films and television shows and you
know in in sort of mainstream fiction and poetry. And so I think that in terms
culturally I think lesbians are really much much much more visible and accepted
and more than accepted. You know, honored you know like... Ellen what her
daytime TV show is beloved probably gets the best ratings in daytime TV I
suspect. And there's so many out lesbians in popular culture now. It's a
completely different landscape than when Dyke TV started.
AB: Well I'm sure Dyke TV played a role in helping create that change.

4 of 32

�MP: I'd like to think so.
00:07:42
AB: So could you just maybe describe a typical episode in terms of what would
have you see and hear from, like kind of if you could just walk us through a
typical episode as you remember it.
MP: Well we set it up from the very start to be what we call a magazine format
so we wanted there to be topics on all different. We wanted there to be pieces
on all different topics. We always started off with the new segment so that was
maybe I would say five. One minute stories we had a news anchor and then we
had a segment called eyewitness which was our more feature, non-fiction piece
news piece which went into a news topic in more depth. And then from there it
would rotate we always had an art section. I actually feel like some of our
strongest material was our art segment and that was produced by Linda
Chapman who was one of the executive directors. And like I said she's a she's at
artistic director at New York theatre workshop. So she's got amazing contacts.
So we we interviewed like incredible people. You know. Nicole Eisenman like
when you know like Guggenheim genius you know Eileen Myles Lisa Kron- two
Tony award winners. Well you know like there's there's a ton of people that we
featured when they were early on in their careers.
00:09:18
MP: I think they were beautiful beautifully done pieces. There's a piece on
Dolores Prida, a Cuban playwright who unfortunately a couple of years back
passed away. But you know we have her life documented so I think actually the
arts section was was always part of the mix. And like I said it was one of those
sections that we were really committed to and proud of. We would rotate other
sessions like we would do sports, we would do... There was a producer called
that Beth Trimarco. She did kind of a funny almost mockumentary type piece
called Fab Girls Fix-It. And she you know would start off as a narrative like I
don't remember the exact story but say a woman is riding her bike to go meet
her girlfriend and she gets a flat tire. Well, she would tell you how to fix the flat
tire, which was always like a super fun segment. I think we had a dating section
once... We had health, was a big section for us. Julie Clark, who's now a
physician in California she did a lot of the curating of that, the health segment
5 of 32

�so it was just a real mix of material and so much of it wasn't being heard
anywhere else.
00:10:42
AB: Yeah we were really... We really enjoyed the interview we saw I think it was
from the arts segment with the filmmaker Sue Friedrich.
MP: Sue Friedrich. Yeah.
AB: Yeah, that was really beautiful, a well done interview. And I think one of
my classmates actually contacted her personally to get her permission to use the
clip of her film online and she remembered it fondly and was quite happy to
participate in the program.
00:11:07
MP: Yeah she is so she just said an opening at BAM on Thursday night. So
she's still you know out there doing stuff. So yeah. Really. Yeah we did a lot with
the arts.
00:11:21
AB: And so, one of the other things I wanted to ask you about was show's logo.
Could you could you describe it if you could talk about it in a way so that
somebody who hasn't seen it could picture in their mind and then discuss how
you came up with the show's logo?
00:11:39
MP: Well we the first thing we had to come up with was the show's name and at
the very beginning when we were first talking we had, we called it Dyke TV -the
working title and we sort of put it out there. What to people... What should we
call this show? And we just never came up with anything better. We wanted it to
be provocative. We wanted it to be in your face. We wanted it to be
unapologetic. And so we ended up sticking with the title Dyke TV. And I think
the logo was also unapologetic in that it looked like a superman logo. And that's
what we were going for, like lesbian superheroes. And proud and unapologetic
and loud and in your face and just out there. So that's that you know.... and
intelligent. We weren't just screamers you know, we did- I think our show was
real well rounded and that had funny... we had hilarious stuff. I mean um, we
also had that segment (This isn't to do with the logos to stop me if I'm going
6 of 32

�off topic) but we did that second segment weekly called I was a lesbian child
people narrated their baby pictures and that wasn't always, but that often was
really comical. So we tried to just keep it you know, a combination of like
lesbian superhero and lesbian every woman and every girl - just you know just a
well-rounded well-rounded dykes and well-rounded program.
00:13:22
AB: So did you get feedback from the community that you were involved in
and working with on the show title in terms of Dyke TV. Did everybody feel
like yeah right on that's that's the best name?
00:13:34
MP: Well some people hated it.
00:13:37
AB: And what was your response to that?
MP: Some people don't like the word Dyke, you know. So we you know, respect
that. But we were going for something we going for that provocation that the
word dyke engendered. And so I understood that some people thought it was a
little bit in their face or crude or crass but it definitely was memorable and I
think it summed up what we were trying to do, you know, which was to be
provocative and to be unapologetic and to be out there and to be memorable.
AB: Yes. To tell your own stories. Right. Because they weren't being heard
elsewhere. And so could you talk a little bit about how you wound up making
connections to the public access TV stations?
00:14:37
MP: I think the initial contact was... oh you mean, across the US?
AB: Well both locally here in New York and then just maybe briefly how it
continued to get further distribution.
MP: Okay. Well we initially before we even started the show we needed to have a
venue. I mean we were at that point, like I said that it wasn't the web so we
needed to have a venue to air the show. And I think it was Ana María Simo who
had the initial contact with Manhattan neighborhood network who still is the
7 of 32

�local public access station in New York City and by the way they're still alive and
from my understanding I think they're still thriving. So, they gave us a slot. And
once we get a slot committed we had to get going. You know we had to start
producing. We I think we asked for a slot like three months in advance because
we knew doing a weekly show that we would need to get some stories like in the
can and ready because you know once the show started airing it was like
nonstop nonstop. So we worked really hard three months before the show
started airing which I believe was something like June 1st 1993 it was early June
1993 when it was our first air date a Manhattan neighborhood Network. And
then people heard about it I me first we went to Brooklyn. And people are like
we want it in Brooklyn we want it in Staten Island we want it in Queens. And I
think we started doing outreach through like marches whenever there was a gay
and lesbian march. We would definitely bring flyers around and say this is where
we're airing if you want to be aired Contact your local cable public access station
and so that got us into other other locations. But I think also there started to
just be a buzz about it that this was out there and people started contacting us
and saying we want it we want Dyke TV in our area. So then you know we
would leave it up to them to work out with their local public access stage and
how they were going to make that happen. And you know it was local
community members. They were the ones that you know had access to to the to
the public access stations. So and then when it got after we got to like I mean
like I said I don't remember the precise figure but I I'm pretty sure we topped
100 at one point. Once it got to be that many cities we had to have a
distribution coordinator because we needed to literally make copies of the show
and send them out. That's what we had to do. So it was like very time
consuming and and pretty expensive.
00:17:42
AB: And I can imagine what were you sending the copies on, what format,
because you were shooting in high eight so...
MP: Sue Yeah well we did average the local stations wanted they had specs that
we had to comply with but I'm pretty sure most of them were three quarter
inch.
00:18:00
AB: And so just while we're on it, could you talk a little bit more about your
working process? So say... Could you talk about how you would sort of set up
8 of 32

�the production and how they would how they would each be produced because
you mentioned that different people were producing different segments so to
speak so could you maybe talk us through maybe setting up a production
schedule an actual shoot in action to the finished product?
MP: Well we had what was called producers meetings where people would
come to the meetings and we would get stories and basically if anybody wanted
to do a story we let them do it. I mean there was very little that I mean I don't
think we ever said no to anything. I mean I think we had to comply to some like
nudity stuff and you know there were some small things that we had to work
around but for the most part we were there to let people voice whatever they
were wanted to whatever issues or topics was was of interest to them. So we'd
have producers meetings meetings and and I was the coordinator of the
schedule for the most part. So I would... I knew that the first five to six minutes
was news. And I think at the beginning it was Harriet Hirschhorn and Janet
Boss if I'm not mistaken who did the news and then later Sally Sasso were the
news producers. So they would be the one sort of responsible for coming up
with the three to five stories at the top that that we talked about. And then we
the I-Witness piece was the longer piece so that was one of the things that we
got feedback from from the producers it's like who's got a story that can run
four to six minutes. When can you have it done? And then we go down the line
it's like you know other people will be there don't necessarily have an interest in
news per se but would have an interest in more health segments. So you know
like Julie Clark, I would say Julie how many pieces can you do this month when
can they be done. You know the art segment Linda committed to an art segment
every week and she was excellent so we knew that towards the bottom of the
show we had you know three to six minute piece. So it was about like filling in
all that time and you know I mean you probably know... you don't have the
masters. But we did repeat some episodes. Especially you know as time went on
It was hard to do that complete 30 minutes fresh every week. But we did the
best we could and we you know, primarily had new segments along the way and
then you know I was a Lesbian Child was a weekly piece and what we would do
is like every third or fourth Saturday- I actually produced that piece. So I would
gather like four or five people would shoot it all in a day. And then I have five of
those segments ready to go you know to put in any of the of the of the shows.
So and it was just a matter of then I think I think for the most part I think it
was Sally Sasso. At first I compiled the shows I'd like make a list, a running time
someone would put it together and then I think I did that at first with music and
9 of 32

�not the inter-titles. And then after after a while I'm pretty sure Sally Sasso did
that.
00:21:33
MP: So it was it was basically very we always said we didn't run as a collective
like in the end the executive producers had the final say, but we were really
democratic and inclusive. It's like whoever wanted to produce something
basically produce something which is why there is such a range of different
materials because we just felt like it was important to highlight lesbian
experience and experiences in all the arenas that we exist. Not just
demonstrations or not just sports but in the health fields. And you know, in
every field imaginable. So that's what we did.
00:22:21
AB: And once you had all of the episodes... so where would you actually be
editing all of this were you editing collectively together or which you each kind
of go way in and come back and say this is what I have and then all of the
different segments would be compiled? How did that work?
00:22:39
MP: We had we always had a studio. You know our office, it was small and
basically a few desks with a partition and an edit, you know, a three quarter inch
edit system behind the wall and there was a high 8 deck where we would make
the transfers so that editing room was being used at all times. You know some to
some of us had our own editing systems. Like I edited for a living already, some
some of us already were working on video and filmmakers so we had our own
systems in which case... Another producer of ours is Greta Olafsdottir and
Susan Muska they're the ones that did the piece on Edie Windsor, Edie and
Thea. They did the piece about Brandon Teena. So they had their own systems
their own edit systems, and they would just bring in the pieces when they were
done. But for the most part the work was caught onsite in the Dyke TV offices.
And then when the pieces were done, you know they were just given to me and
I you know figured out the timing. And we you know we put the shows
together. He had bumpers. We tried to have bumpers. Like you know I don't
know if you saw the the little the kind of funny ad we did that was "Lesbians
What a beautiful Choice" did you see that?
00:24:07
10 of 32

�AB: You know I don't think we've come across that in the tapes that we have. If
you could talk about it that’d be great.
MP: Well that was we just knew that you know because we were working with
volunteers and we didn't want to have to be so precise that sometimes the shows
would be running a little long and sometimes they'd be running a little short. So
we had bumpers like at one point we had we try to get people like we got
Martina Navratilova to say you know put on a Dyke TV hat say you know, I
can't even remember what she said you know...
AB: I want my Dyke TV
MP: I want my Dyke TV or something like that. Did you did you see that one?
AB: No.
MP: It's something like that. So we get other people to do that and then we had
this really funny. I thought it was funny commercial that we actually shot in film
that was beautiful. We had these women kind of hanging out in this idyllic farm.
Our voiceover being you know don't quote me exactly but it was like Daddy
used to be married to a man who's now balding and broke and then she kind of
set saddle's up to her girlfriend, "Lesbianism. What a beautiful choice" And
there were other things like that there was maybe three scenarios like that in a
row. And so we had things like that that we could insert in between segments to
break it up and to also stretch out the show if we needed you know time and
time wise to be precise.
AB: And so could you describe a little bit about what the atmosphere was like
during the production and post production together because it seems like a
really tight knit community project as a whole. And I just wonder if you could
maybe describe what it was like to be producing the show in action on site and
in the studio.
00:26:06
MP: Well I mean I remember it very fondly and it was excitement and exciting
time. It was a time of ,really the first time lesbians had on our own demanded
visibility apart from you know gay men and where you know we were just proud
out there Dykes, you know demanding our place and this and we also one of the
11 of 32

�other cool things that we did is that every. I think it was every month. We
had...we did workshops so we were training women all the way every step of the
way on how to shoot and produce. In fact, Sally Sasso who ended up being one
of the executive directors took what she started off in our class. So and there
are people out there in the world making stuff who started out at Dyke TV, you
know. So we it was just a really exciting time. I think that it was a way for Dykes
to come together in a really productive, fun and political way and see tangible
results.
So you know of course...Was there was there tension? Of course it was a tense
time. It was a tense thing to do to put on a show and get it done every week. But
I think overall that was kind of you know we had very very little conflict. And
I'm mostly just you know were all on same page about about getting the show
done. It was you know very project oriented and the deadlines came fast and
furious, So you know we had to we had to work together as a team and I think
overall we did.
00:28:04
AB: And this was a full time endeavor for you and say, Linda Chapman and Sally
Sasso.
00:28:10
MP: For me it wasn't full. I mean I worked full time but I wasn't paid. I I was
one of the... My brother was one of the... My brother passed away from AIDS.
He left some money to Dyke TV. And so I felt like I couldn't get paid to do any
of the work. It just seemed like a conflict of interest so I never took money
from Dyke TV but I certainly work there full time. I was teaching at the School
of Visual Arts at the time and also freelancing but Linda Chapman, Linda
Chapman It was a full time job I think for a little while Ana Maria Simo was
paid full time or half time. I think Julie Clark she was our first distribution
person. I think she got paid. We basically paid me to pay the couple of positions
that we knew we couldn't get people to do for free. And so production, anybody
working in production kinda didn't get paid because that was more like people
were willing to do it for nothing. So you know we didn't have endless resources.
We had very little resources so we needed somebody to coordinate it and we
needed somebody to get it out. Out in the world so those are the people who
get paid. But yeah we had we had many people working you know 40 hour plus
weeks who weren't being paid. But it was you know our passion at the time. So
that's what we did.
12 of 32

�00:29:35
AB: So that's what we did made it happen everybody coming together. So kind
of touched touched on this a little bit. I was just wondering if he could talk a
little bit more sort of specifically about how some of the segments evolved
particularly the ones that we have found in the tapes that we have so for
example example. OK for example
00:29:59
MP: Yeah...remind me
AB: So one actually that we have the most of is the I was a Lesbian Child
segment. Could you describe that just you know what this segment is and the
origins of how the idea for that developed?
MP: Hmmm... Well that was my segment. I think that honestly how the idea
that came up was if I'm not mistaken I pretty sure that was a Lesbian Avenger
T-shirt. I think you might want to check with Ana Maria or someone else, but I
think one of the first actions that the Avengers did was they did it at a... Might
have been a middle school and between you and me and the lamppost I don't
remember exactly what the it was if there was a teacher who had been fired or if
there had been some anti-gay thing happen there. So I think that they went to
that demo with T-shirts that said "I was a lesbian child" I remember, in my mind
I can see those T-shirts so based on that phrase, I decided to do a piece called "I
was a Lesbian Child" where people narrate their baby pictures and I thought it
was just a fun way.... Number one you know I mean it's you know think of
throwback Thursday on Facebook right. People love looking at their old
photographs and talking about it and in trying to remember, you know their
younger days and more innocent times. And so I think it was also just to show
that. I hate it I hate the idea and like we're like everyone else. But the fact is
we're... you know like humans like everyone else. We started off as little babies
and awkward adolescents and and strident college students and you know
mellowed into adults I mean and. And I think that was part of what we were
trying to achieve there is to just show it is to allow for form of nostalgia, but
also just you know I don't know I don't want to seem normal but just like sort
of just how average and funny people's lives are when told through pictures and
13 of 32

�they are also pictures that were curated by the women themselves so they told a
story that was that that the participants are the people who were being being
highlighted. Wanted to tell in their own voice. So we thought it was an
opportunity to educate, to get to laugh, to have some nostalgia. And it was you
know a very fun, easy piece to put together. And that's that's why we did that.
00:33:16
AB: Yeah and the other segments that we have. Well we think we're not sure
because like I said we have a lot of footage from ACT-UP Dyke marches and
there is another demonstration against Don't Ask Don't Tell and Clinton is
visiting the city I think. And we were wondering whether that would be
something that would fall under eyewitness or in the news. And if you can if
you know that that would be great if you could tell us. And then also describe...
You said I witnessed was a little bit longer than the news section if you could
just maybe say again a little bit more about how those two segments were
differentiated.
00:33:57
MP: Well the news was... I don't think our stories on the news really went over
in a minute maybe a minute and a half. I think we tried to have three to six
stories within the course of five minutes five years you know things were loose
and are a little fluid. So five six minutes. And you know when you're telling a
story in a minute and a half it doesn't allow you to include as much nuance or
analysis as you can in just a you know more straight news story. So the eye
witness was allowed us to go more in depth
about about an issue or a topic or person. So for instance when Teena Brandon
was murdered, I don't know if you know about that story in Nebraska. Boys
Don't Cry- the film Boys Don't Cry was based on it. But the first people who
went out and did a story on that was Susan Muska and Greta Olafsdottir. The
first place for any information or news about Teena Brandon was was broadcast
was on Dyke TV. And so I'm certain that we get a news
story when they first got out here just a short piece. And then when they had
time to cut something longer, we did an extensive piece that included interviews
with like her ex and if I'm not mistaken, I think they even interviewed the guy in
jail who killed who killed him or her I think she still said she was her. So at any
rate that's sort of how it worked. I mean we do know it was shorter. I don't
want to say factual but just more lean stories in the news segments and then
14 of 32

�fleshed it out in eyewitness where we could go more extensively with interviews
of participants or people who were affected a little bit more analysis just are you
know diving into the material more in depth. There was overlap. I mean
sometimes the story would start off as a news story and then develop into an
eyewitness. And by the way we also like I think I said this we got producers
from all over the country to produce for us. So we we had a producer from
Madison Wisconsin who would send us stuff and we tried to get them, you
know first she started off sending new stories and then [‘scuse me ‘scuse me]
started doing new stories with them would do some eyewitness pieces for us. We
tried we really did try not to have it be so New York/Northeast centric as much
as we could. You know given the constraints that we had financially and also
technologically
AB: It is just an amazing production just the reach that you had. You can tell
that there was such a big need for Dyke TV because of the way that people were
able and very willing to contribute from not only from New York but from
around the country and you know it is just a really important groundbreaking
program. And then we also have some segments that we think would be
classified under the Arts. You mentioned that a little bit already but if you could
maybe just give us a very brief description of the arts and the idea for that
segment.
00:37:44
MP: Well women artists or even to this day such a small segment of artists that
are exhibited in museums and galleries. You know if you look at like the top 100
best selling artists I mean there might be like three on the entire list that are
women. Never mind lesbians. So we realize that lesbian artists were invisible to a
good part of humanity and we wanted to bring out their their talents and their
personalities and you know their abilities. And so we had people like Elizabeth
Streb she's a genius you know and we did an extensive piece on Elizabeth Streb.
Nancy Fried is a really influential sculptor. [Scuse me.] You know, there were you
know Nicole Eisenman, as I mentioned before. Lisa Kron and the five lesbian
brothers. So I think we did a piece on Peggy Shaw and Lois Weaver, Split
Britches. So we really really knew that there was a wealth of talent out there that
was not recognized or even known about.
00:39:06
15 of 32

�MP: And so it was it was really in our interests to get that material and those
women out there. And I'm not even saying to mainstream culture. To lesbian
cultures I mean lesbians didn't even know about these women these amazing
women that were out there toiling away and creating amazing stuff. So yeah, the
arts was really near and dear to us. I mean like I said, Ana Maria is a playwright.
Lisa is the artistic director in the theater. You know I'm a documentary
filmmaker at the time I was doing more experimental work. So we had a
commitment not only personally not only in terms of the show but also
personally we had a commitment to the arts. We were both. All three of us were
very ensconced in the art community in downtown Manhattan at the time. And
so we knew of dozens and dozens and dozens of women who were out there
working doing amazing work that no one knew about. So that was that was
really a big commitment of ours to make sure that those women were
recognized and celebrated. And that became a very important component of
the show.
AB: I thank you very much succeeded in that. Like in the episodes that we saw
with the one. Like I mentioned that contains an interview with Su Friederich
and then another one is with a filmmaker named Maria Maggenti. I'm not sure
how you pronounce your name. Yeah yeah. And they were both very well
produced segments and really made us want to discover their artwork more. Mm
hmm. And then another segment that's mentioned in one of the things that we
have one of the tapes is called from the archives and you do remember what the
idea was behind that particular segment.
00:41:02
MP: The idea behind that was you know we have a great resource in New York
City. I hope young lesbians know about and that's called the Lesbian Herstory
Archives. They have their own building in Brooklyn and they own the building
if I'm not mistaken I think it's paid off. They have an amazing collection of
archives of lesbian material from forever. And so what we wanted to do was
take advantage of that collection. And each week, I actually I don't think it was a
weekly segment it was only a monthly segment more. More likely a monthly
segment- dive into the archives and show and explain some of the material that
they that they had there, so that women knew that there was a history- that we
weren't we weren't inventing the wheel that there were women who had come
before us, brave women who had made a place for where we were and to look
back on the struggles that they had and put our current struggles into
16 of 32

�perspective and to know that you know people -women have been fighting for a
long time for their rights. And yeah and also to highlight the good work and the
great collection of the archives. It was an opportunity for us to highlight that
because it is an amazing institution with incredibly valuable material and an
incredibly unique collection.
AB: Oh that's so great. We hadn't realized that it was actually we thought it was
maybe from Dyke TV cause we didn't know it was from LHA archives.
00:42:54
I'm pretty sure what was the segment you saw it just I don't think that we were. I
don't think "from the archives" meant that we were showing old stuff of our
own. I think we were showing stuff from the Lesbian Herstory archives.
00:43:08
AB: Yeah I'd have to double check our records from that because we've seen so
many tapes. I'm not sure which one was exactly that from the archives one but I
can look it up and let you know because we do have some descriptive metadata.
And another one of our groups has been working on in terms of just describing
it segments that people could find it online. So in terms of Dyke TV sounds like
it was really successful and rewarding project for everybody involved. Did you
ever receive any negative feedback on the show? And you know, how if you ever
did, could you talk about how you dealt with it?
MP: You know to be honest with you I'm not remembering a lot of negative.
Like there wasn't like death threats or anything like that. I think if there were
any threats they probably went to the public access stations and maybe they
shielded us from it. I think there might have been one station and I'd have to
double check with someone on the veracity of this but I believe that might have
been one station that told us. I think we might have done a cervical exam as part
of one of the health segments and we might have gotten pulled from a couple
of stations after that. But other than that, I mean you know course sometimes
you know people would approach us and say oh you should be doing more
stories about whatever fill in the blank. And we always say well you know come
and do it. It's like it's a volunteer organization. People do the subjects and a
subject matter that they're interested in. And if that's subject interests you then
you should come. Come on down and help us produce, because we were pretty
much open to any stories being made. I mean one of the really the only
17 of 32

�restrictions we had was that we thought it was really important not to criticize
any other gay and lesbian organization, because unfortunately I think that that
happens way too much. I think that's part of the reason why the left, you know
lost this last election and to be honest. I think that we spent a lot of time eating
each other up and you know and I think that... I mean there are organizations
that I don't respect terribly, but they're doing work on behalf of gay and lesbian
people, not in the air arena that I would want there that I find near and dear to
me. But I didn't want to spend an hour of our time criticizing those
organizations. They are not the enemy. And so we really try to be very keep a
very very positive outlook and point of view to anybody during trying to do
anything to make change and I think that you know as though you know the left
should do more of that because you know not everyone can be uber activist.
Not everyone has the ability or the disposition to do that. But as long as people
are trying to do something then I'm not.... I don't want to spend an ounce of
my time criticizing and we made a point at Dyke TV not to do that. There's an
organization called the Human Rights Campaign. I'll give you an example.
00:46:51
MP: They really fought for gay marriage and for the rights of people to be in
the military. Well early on in Dyke TV a lot of us were like really the two most
conservative institutions on the planet. You're going to fight for that? And the
other thing that they did was they they supported a Republican senator over.
Was that the guy at the time the guy's name was Al D'Amato. They supported
him over Charles Schumer who's now currently our senator in New York. And
it pissed a lot of people off. But we weren't going to spend a second of our time
on that as much as a lot of us were very unhappy with the direction of the
organization. We didn't spend a second of our time. They were not the enemy.
So I mean I think that it helped us. You know just keep a pretty positive place in
the gay and lesbian community. Of course there were many people who were
offended by the name, but you know, we we came to terms with that very very
early on. We felt like the power that was inscribed in it in the end the number of
people who actually appreciated the name far outweighed the kind of you know
more conservative people who thought that that was a crass, unwise name for
our show. I will say it did make it hard to fundraise.
You know it's hard to raise money with name like Dyke TV back in the
90s. [Scuse me I'm going to cough again. I'm sorry]
00:48:39
18 of 32

�AB: Speaking of keeping things positive. Could you talk a bit about what you
feel are the the main successes of the project?
00:48:51
MP: Well honestly I think the main successes is that we like really really very
comprehensively documented a critical time period and gay and lesbian history. I
mean I think there was so much happening in the 90s. It was the peak of the
AIDS epidemic or you know the early 90s late 80s early 90s peak of the AIDS
epidemic.
It was at the very beginning of...I mean it was I mean gay activism of course had
been happening since stonewall. [coughs] I'll say again it again. I'll start again.
Gay activism had been happening since stonewall but it was really coming to a
critical head, I think pushed a lot by what was had happened with ACT UP all
the activism around AIDS.
And so I I do think that that period of the late 80s, all of the 90s into the early
oughts were just very very instrumental times for the gay and lesbian movement
in the US and frankly around the world. So, I would say our biggest achievement
is that we have for for you know, millennials I hope, and I don't mean that as a
category, but like for into the future have documented and I'm hoping you know
preserving this history for other people to see it was an amazingly dynamic
exciting time period of activism and tangible change
AB: For all of this success, is there anything still that you might have done
differently.
00:50:42
MP: Well I just wished ITV had lasted like five more years because we just
missed the Internet. And I actually think the Internet would have been better
venue. It certainly would have been an easier venue. But I think Dyke TV would
have been sort of tailor made for the Internet. Just the magazine format the way
we dealt with different topics, so that you know people with different interests
could tap in and not only as viewers but as producers.
00:51:17
MP: I think that that if we could have made it in and had an internet presence,
that would have been great not only for the show but for for our fans and
viewers.
19 of 32

�AB: Absolutely. Well speaking of the Internet we are going to be putting the
materials that we do have online for people to access via the LHA web site. And
I just wanted to run by you our idea for how we're going to be presenting it.
Because since we don't have full episodes per se we have this kind of archival
challenge or you know we have to kind of
brainstorm to figure out the most suitable way to present what we do have. So
the idea is to actually take the footage that we have and then break it into the
various segments that will have an introduction to this show just explaining the
background and naming key producers such as yourself. And then we're going
to have for example, I was a lesbian Child section where we'll have three clips of
that of three different. I was a lesbian child segments and they were going to
have the Arts segment and we'll have Maria Maggenti's interview and Sue
Friedrich's interview and then we're going to have an eyewitness section. So
we're thinking of breaking it down into segments like that. How would your
feelings be about that?
00:52:51
MP: Well this is my thing. I know that Sally is even more cautious than I am,
and that is If I find I'm mistaken. I don't think we ever got a release form from
anybody. So for instance Maria Maggenti, I don't know if she considers herself
a lesbian anymore I would feel uncomfortable with you showing her piece. But
Sue Friederich on the other hand, I think would be fine. I guess before...,I think
that what we had said initially Sally and I...this is what we're doing with Smith
initially is anything that's in public domain can be screened with no problem at
all. It sounds like you got permission from Sue Friederich already. But I would
feel terrible if you're going to do that and you get permission. There may other
people like her who are no longer gay and you don't have a husband who has no
idea that they were allegedly also there showing up on this lesbian website. Well
I mean I just I just don't know how people are going to react. And legally we
don't want any trouble. But, I mean I think if there are understanding is if
things are shot on the street there's a presumption. There's no presumption of
privacy. But, You know in an interview with Maria Maggenti. You might just
want to get her permission. Plus you're also showing clips of her film which is
owned by like Warner Brothers and I don't even know it's owned by.
00:54:24
AB: Yeah there's all sorts of rights implications there and it's a bit of a sticky
issue.
20 of 32

�00:54:29
MP: Yeah I think that to be honest with you I doubt Maria owns the rights to
her films. That's really what it is. So I would seriously, you know just be mindful
of that and you can just put anything you want up. Yeah. Where you can get
permission and start compiling that. Like if you could even like get a you get an
excel sheet where we know, because Smith wants to do this too and we
cautioned them. We're not sure that just anything can go up there you know.
AB: So, Yes I know that. Another one of my classmates, Victoria. She's been emailing a few of the people that are in the I was a lesbian child segments and
she's gotten permission from people the ones some the clips that we're going to
show in specifically with people who have said that they are OK.
MP: Yes. Good.
AB: And then there's also a really powerful interview by a woman, I'm not sure
if I'm saying her name correctly, but it's Jelica from Yugoslavia or former
Yugoslavia now.
00:55:33
MP: Yes she was awesome.
AB: Yes, it was very powerful interview and she apparently said it was all right as
long as we didn't make her name searchable on the Internet. So she was OK
with it being present she just didn't want you know a search for her name to
bring that up necessarily. So we're not going to include her name in a way that
that's going to show up in the metadata.
MP: If you will if there's a way for you to just keep track of this so people
don't have to do all this work twice. You could let Smith know that you got the
OK for these specific things. I mean have a way of dealing with it because they
didn't want to have to go segment by segment get permission and to be honest
with you. I need to meet with them again but they had a strategy that basically
we're not responsible... I mean you know. Nor have the producers given. You
know. There were some.... Believe me they have a legal team so they have some
way of dealing with it where it seem to make things hard to litigate. But
21 of 32

�I could get back with you. I mean the more you can get permission, obviously
the less trouble there's gonna be.
00:56:50
AB: Well that's why we're just kind of really showing. I mean first of all that's
mostly what we have is the rushes or the raw footage of the demonstrations so
we're including those in their entirety. There's like an hour per tape or something
like that. And then after that there's the the little segments there's another one I
think we're going to include in the the eyewitness section which actually I'm not
sure now if this would be considered eyewitness or not but there is something
at Clark Corners where a woman is reporting on some discrimination she and
her partner faced in a restaurant. Does that ring a bell?
MP: It doesn't but I I you tell me did you get in touch with Sally Sasso.
00:57:33
AB: You know we've tried reaching out to a few different people without
getting many responses. And then we did hear from Laura.
00:57:42
MP: Laura Perry
AB: You know she got in touch and said that she'd be willing to speak with us
but that she wanted us to to speak with you first and that if we weren't getting
everything that she would talk as well but she wanted us to speak with you first I
think.
00:57:56
MP: Yeah. Sally Sasso and so I think Sally and Laura ran it together it was
mostly me.
Me, Ana and Linda at first and then AnaI dropped out it was me and Linda for a
while and I think it was Laura and Sally for a long period. Sally just entered law
school. So that's the reason why she had been talking a lack of interest. It's just
she's, you know she's got a kid and she's in law school and she's just you know
barely keeping her head above water.

22 of 32

�AB: I understand that completely. I'm right there myself so I get it. So just one
other thing I mean I'd love to get Maria Maggenti's contacts if you have it but
maybe we could.
MP: Let me look
AB: But maybe we could get back on that via e-mail. But I was just wondering
if you could say little bit about how you'd like Dyke TV to be remembered and
described for future generations.
00:58:56
MP: Oh I think I'd like it to be considered ahead of its time. Dynamic. You
know, important. A catalyst for change. An activist organization that used the
arts to inform people to get them excited, in a venue where lesbians were
revered and honored and... and given the attention that they deserved, in not
only in the activist community but in the greater society at large. You know what
I want to be remembered is fierce and uncompromising... but also funny and
irreverent. You know in a show that was really well rounded and ahead of its
time. And I think I think we were all that.
01:00:07
AB: I think so too from what we've seen so far. And if you would like I mean if
you could just say how would you like it to actually be described. I mean you've
mentioned how he'd like to be remembered. And so here it is being
groundbreaking and fierce. And you know ahead of its time how would you like
the program to be described by you know previous viewers who were watching
it live as broadcast and then now for maybe youth now just maybe finding it in
LHA archive. How would you like him to describe it?
MP: I mean I think you said it. I would like it to be thought of as a
groundbreaking fierce.
Early television show that highlighted lesbian activism and visibility. In a time
when lesbians weren't even on the map and that we came together as a
community of artists and slash activists and produce something that was
meaningful and I think still relevant today.

23 of 32

�AB: Absolutely. And would you ever maybe think about now that there is this
new internet and web vehicle for showing shows would you ever start up Dyke
TV again?
01:01:39
MP: I don't know that I would but I would certainly encourage someone else to.
I talked to a woman it was about a year ago who was interested in doing
something not quite like Dyke TV in maybe a little bit more I would say more
like a blog, slash video site. And that was that was geared towards lesbians. I
mean so much just like lesbian gay by transgendered. And so, but she really
wanted to focus on lesbians which I think has been something that's been quite
a controversial idea, that by focusing just on lesbians somehow it's excluding gay
experience bi experience or trans experience. And I don't think that so I think
that you know women and and lesbians need -we need visibility.
We're not out there in the world enough still to this day. And so I think it's
something that if somebody had the energy, that I think it could, I think it's not
only necessary but could be successful. [coughs] Let me say it again it's not only
it's not only necessary but could be successful.
AB: Absolutely. Do you think at the moment that there is any programming
that's on right now that resonates with what Dyke TV was doing at all?
MP: You know I'm not it was you my friend who was going to do some saying
she was a colleague of mine and she was going to actually do a collaboration
with someone and she told me I'm just looking to see if I can find... what she
had... because I thought she had a name. So I can't find it. I can't find it right
now. But not that I know of. Like I said I think there's a lot of I think that in
some ways people perhaps don't feel like there's a need you know which is is a
bit depressing to me, because you know we made a lot of strides as gay people
and and I don't think that gay people feel as marginalized or under siege. Maybe
they do now with Trump. But, so I think that there hasn't been- there are still
certainly arcane lesbian organizations but I'm not sure. I don't know. That's a
really good question. That's a really I think there's a need and I think that that
it's you know like just like women. Women are still, we've made progress sure
but we still have so much that we have to overcome in terms of discrimination
and the way we're treated in society at large. And so I think that to highlight
women's experience and specifically lesbians experience is still a necessity.
24 of 32

�01:05:06
AB: Very much so. And so you mentioned before that you know you you've got
really strong connection to the LHA archive And we were just curious if you
could just briefly discuss how Dyke TV wound up at Smith. Because I think our
professor at the start of it was really excited at the idea of it but he didn't
understand that the masters were all somewhere else.
MP: Yeah but you know what. I don't think that I don't think that the Archives
has. I don't I don't think it's that college has an exclusive exclusive deal at all. So
if you guys want it masters I think that you could get him
AB: Right. OK.
MP: My guess is is that if you want a masters you could get them from Smith
and we and we make that really clear we didn't want an exclusive thing. I don't
want an exclusive thing. That's not their deal. But that's not that's not how the
Smith archives works it's really about getting women's material historical
material about women throughout the ages. Out in the world. So I don't think
they have. An exclusive way of dealing with their material. I think they are
actually quite generous in sharing. It's my understanding of them.
01:06:38
AB: Oh yeah. You've been very friendly because we've contacted them in order
to get a finding aid, you need to find out what they actually did have because
when you first visit their web site it's not obvious about what is actually there.
We are trying to piece together what it was LHA had and what Smith had to try
and figure out what the content was on these tapes because these are just you
know unlabelled U-Matic tapes and a lot of cases and we were just trying to get
a sense of what you know complete episodes were like and how you they were
produced and so on and so on. So yeah everybody's been very friendly we were
just curious about how some of it you know got separated.
MP: I think that what happened was the original high 8s. And maybe there
weren't maybe the U-matic parts that you have, or individual segments that
people edited probably ended up in our closet in our archive closet at Dyke TV
while we were still functioning. 'Scuse me. [coughs] and then once our closet got
full, we were like we got to get this somewhere. So we gave it to the Lesbian
25 of 32

�Herstory archives. But we still had the masters and when I moved up here, Sally
Sasso who had also been one of... I stopped being involved with
TV after a certain period. I think I worked until like 97 or something like that.
And if I'm not mistaken maybe. Dyke TV.... you do you know the end date. No.
You'd have to ask Sally Sasso about that, but I think it would only be to know
that we were around for 9/11 so maybe it ended at like 2000. So when. When
Dyke TV got rid of their office. They asked if they could put you know a bunch
of their stuff in my basement. And to be honest it's still there. I just have a ton
of stuff in my basement, which I think are mostly masters.
AB: Oh wow.
MP: You know I think. Smith got the other half I think there were two sets of
masters. So I think that's how it works. But like I said by the end, I wasn't
involved in the day to day any more. I'd say for the last three or four years I
wasn't. So the person who would know how that came about would be Sally.
And my guess is that you probably...I know well it's beyond the scope of your
particular assignment due soon. But if somebody was following up the time to
reach her is obviously school break when she's in between semesters at law
school.I think when she's in law schools there's just no finding her or getting in
touch with her. She's swamped.
01:09:41
AB: Like I said I'll definitely let my professor know I know he'll be really
pleased to find out that there is you know more footage out there to kind of
capture and add to the LHA collection because he's been working with them.
Pratt has been working with the LHA. for you know I think at least a few years
now and I think that this relationship is going to continue since it's a mutually
beneficial situation where students are getting real firsthand experience of you
know archiving materials. And then LHA is you know getting some really
important work done on their behalf. So right I think I don't see that this
relationship
is going to not continue.
MP: You know what I had heard was that the high 8's were given to the archive
and then
26 of 32

�AB: You mean Smith or LHA.
MP: LHA
AB: OK.
01:10:34
MP: And then for a while I thought I heard they were being stored in the
basement. And I think we said that's not a good idea and you need to get 'em
somewhere. And if I'm not mistaken which I could be...I thought that they were
brought somewhere that had like better climate control. But you know the same
people are still there. Like Maxine Wolf. Did anyone talk to Maxine?
AB: Oh yeah we met with her she's lovely.
MP: Yes she's a doll. I'm just what I'm trying of who we gave that material too.
But there were high eights like like boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes and
boxes and you know some of it's going to be not so good it's like raw material,
you know, but I mean some of it is going to there's going to be some gems in
there. Just gems.
AB: I can imagine I mean just thinking is this everything that you guys were out
there to capture as it was happening you know live on the streets. And. There's
some stuff in there that if it gets lost it's going to be a real loss to the
community at large.
01:11:42
MP: You know just in unity at large interviews with people like Tammy Baldwin
for instance she's a congressperson and was in Wisconsin she she's the first
lesbian and gay Congress person I think we interviewed her when she was
running for like state/.. in the statehouse in Wisconsin I mean we have
interviews of people along the way who are now you know have moved on to
bigger and better things. And it's you know to see them in their early iterations
not only artists but politicians and you know musicians poets. I think we Eileen
Myles from back in the 90s. So I you know I think that there's stuff in there and
that's just really worth looking at. And you know we had cut pieces that were
27 of 32

�relatively short but like you know the piece we did on Nicole Eisenman I'm
pretty sure I shot that. I mean I was there for an hour and a half two hours is
probably two hours of material of her you know. So but you know we can only
air a five minute segment. So it's you know so there's going to be a lot of really
interesting stuff if somebody can track down those tapes.
01:13:01
MP: And the reality is there's no time to lose. High 8 does not it doesn't.
Archive very well.
AB: Yeah it's not stable at all. Yeah. Well I'll definitely bring that up and I'm sure
that there's going to be a lot of interest in it and hopefully if Maxine has the
same memory that you do we can get those tapes out into the eyes of new
viewers.
01:13:27
MP: Yeah that'd be great. Yeah.
AB: Oh one other thing I want to quickly ask you about was the music in the
program.
I noticed there was some credit that would say you know thanks to music
donation from so and so. But I was just curious about how you did wind up
sourcing the music and how you would go about picking it. For example, I was a
lesbian child has a very distinct song that plays before the segment starts and I
was just wondering if you could talk about that a little bit too.
01:13:57
MP: Well we...the opening that we used what is the credits say I can't remember
who it was. It was a lesbian band and we got permission from them. But
everything else we found three you know music music places like music DVDs,
like sound effects to be honest like that we were just kind of scoured places and
um I think in some instances we had some. People compose specific music for
specific pieces but for the most part we were working with just free source
material whenever we could because we knew that it was going to be broadcast
and we didn't know what to run into any copyright issues. So the main people
that we thought like we need get permission from. The group that gave us the
music for the intro. And it was like it was like a feminist punk band. I can't
remember their name right now.
28 of 32

�01:15:10
AB: Yeah I'll double check the credits I know I've seen it a couple of times and
unfortunately I didn't note it down before speaking with you but there's some
very. Of the time period music in there and it's pretty pretty funky.
01:15:27
MP: Definitely.
AB: Well I think I basically covered everything I wanted to discuss right now. I
mean unless there's anything else that you would like us to know in terms of
you know what you would like people to take away from the program and how
you how you'd like us to share it with wider audiences.
MP: I mean I guess I would say I would encourage you to talk to other people. I
mean I know you tried it you try Linda Chapman?
01:15:57
Yeah. Well we basically e-mailed any. Linda was definitely one of them. We've
sent out e-mails to anybody whose e-mail we had basically And yeah we didn't
really hear much back apart from you and Laura.
MP: OK let me look up Linda because I can't imagine that Linda would want it
when she's really busy. But I mean.
AB: Well I love that she corresponded a little bit with Maxine before we got
started just in terms of saying yeah it's OK for the stuff to get digitized but she
didn't necessarily get back to us. The students who were hoping to incorporate
your words into the site.
01:16:40
MP: So to speak Laura, if you could to Linda. Ana Maria. I think she's hard. I
don't know if she talks about Dyke TV She's she's so she could be difficult to
get permission from. I would think that Linda would talk and Sally I think
would talk to if you know when she has time. So maybe you can leave that up to
the next group to try to track down Sally and Linda I think they're there they're
going to go with their memory. You know even Harriet Hirschhorn, she'll
probably be here any minute. Oh she was you know she wasn't one of the
29 of 32

�founders, meaning she wasn't at that first meeting with me, Linda and Ana. But
she wasn't about involved pretty much right away, Harriet. She did the news and
she is very very active in the Lesbian Avengers and ACT UP. A video activist.
You know always one of the main contributors to Dyke TV. She might she
might be someone you want to talk to and I think she have time to talk to you.
01:17:54
AB: OK. Well that would be fantastic. Maybe when you see her if you see her
today just mentioned to her that we're doing this project and if she's open to
getting in touch I would obviously love to speak with her.
MP: OK. Yeah I think that just because I think people are going to remember
different things. It was such a communal effort. There were so many people
involved that it wouldn't be great to get as many point of views as possible. Well
I think that's it for me though.
AB: Oh. Oh. So maybe this is something as well that you might want to think
about and then let me know my e-mail. But one of my classmates wanted me to
ask you about how you would like the materials that LHA has to be cited. So say
for example, somebody watches what we put up online on the site and they
want to give credit. Is there a particular way you would like that to be. I mean I
guess it depends on which video they're actually talking about. But if you have
any preferences or ideas about that we'd like to know so we can put that on the
site as well.
01:19:02
MP: Let me talk to Sally about it, because she's very... I mean like I said she's
going to law school, but even before her interest in personally getting into law
She was always a little concerned about like liability and you know so I don't feel
like we, I don't think either of us would want to be credited. I think we'd be like
that Dyke TV was a collection of blah blah blah. You know after this video
artists who came together to produce a week weekly which ended up turning
into a monthly by the way it didn't work. I think the first year it was a week and
it converted to monthly But I can I can. Let me check with Sally and a few
other people about how that should be cited. OK.

30 of 32

�AB: Yeah. Because I mean we can we can kind of come up with something that
what we most prefer. I mean it's very important to us that we would do as much
as possible in your words coming from you rather than you know just trying to
piece things together by looking things up from various web sites or any
scholarly resources. It's better if it comes from you.
MP: OK. Yeah. Oh I'll see if I can track down Sally. And you know I'll talk to
Harriet, just ask around just indulge me if you don't hear for me.
AB: OK. So just so we can kind of be on the same page here. We basically need
to submit everything to LHA, I think. I think it's by the 8th of December.
01:20:43
So if you have any information leading up to say maybe the fifth. That would be
better because we we've got to put everything online and have everything
written and checked and basically ready to go. We're going to deliver a hard drive
we're going to deliver this site with all of the materials and everything that we're
doing at least for this time around needs to be completed by that date.
MP: Do you mind sending me away to the site when you're done.
AB: Yeah absolutely. I mean right now what we have is like a unpublished
working site that we're doing because everything is just finally starting to come
together now. How our class works is that there's different groups doing the
details and other groups are doing the metadata for everything. And then now
that we have all of that we're able to start putting things up. So it's still under
construction. But once it's ready to go I'll be more happy of course to send you
a link to the site. It's going to be part of the Lesbian Herstory Archive website
so you can see what our classes have been doing for previous years like there's
other projects that document that daughters of politeness and a bunch of other
oral histories that LHA has. So I can send you a link for that now. But the
segment on Dyke TV really isn't up yet but when it is I'll send you the direct link
to that as well.
01:22:01
MP: Well OK. Awesome.
31 of 32

�AB: Yeah yeah. Thank you so much for taking a chance to speak with me I am
really really pleased that we got this opportunity to work on the project as a
whole. And now it's just even better getting the chance to talk with you in
person because it's making everything kind of come to life so to speak.
MP: Great. Happy to help you.
AB: Yeah thank you so much. And if if at any point there's something else that
you might want to say that maybe he forgot any other bits of information you
think we should have in order to do Dyke TV justice on the site. Feel free to get
in touch I'll be happy to chat again or if you just want to send something and email as well that's fine.
01:22:44
MP: OK. Great. Great.
AB: Well thanks again so so very much. Y
MP: Yeah thanks for your work, appreciate It.
AB: Yeah absolutely. Oh and by the way Mary, would you like a copy of this
interview for any reason or are you just happy to be in LHA hands.
01:23:02
MP: Sure. I think I'll take it if you have it. I'll give it to my niece.
01:23:04
AB: Yeah. Great. OK so once I have it I'll just send it to you by we transfer. If
you get that service. Yes. All right. Perfect. Thank you so much and I hope you
enjoy the rest of the weekend Take care. We'll be in touch again soon. OK. T
MP: take care. Thank you. Bye bye.

32 of 32

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                <text>Side A: Mary briefly describes her childhood and family dynamics. Mary and the interviewer then discuss the first time Mary recognized being different and her thoughts on desiring women at a young age, yet not knowing about lesbianism as a concept or about the lesbian community. Mary then recalls the first time she encountered the word "lesbian" when she joined the U.S. Air Force and describes her experiences with women while in the service. Mary talks about being a lesbian in the military, the investigation into her conduct, and her dishonorable discharge. After Mary got another job, she started going to a bar in Buffalo, N.Y., and she talks about the other lesbians she met there. Mary then discovered other bars and talks about the scene as well as the role-playing of butch and femme. &#13;
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                    <text>SAVING PRESERVATION STORIES:&#13;
DIVERSITY AND THE OUTERBOROUGHS&#13;
&#13;
The Reminiscences of&#13;
Anne Maguire and Maxine Wolfe&#13;
&#13;
2017, New York Preservation Archive Project&#13;
&#13;
�PREFACE&#13;
The following oral history is the result of a recorded interview with Anne Maguire and Maxine&#13;
Wolfe conducted by Interviewer Liz H. Strong on November 5, 2017. This interview is part of&#13;
the Saving Preservation Stories: Diversity and the Outer Boroughs oral history project.&#13;
The reader is asked to bear in mind that s/he is reading a verbatim transcript of the spoken word,&#13;
rather than written prose. The views expressed in this oral history interview do not necessarily&#13;
reflect the views of the New York Preservation Archive Project.&#13;
The Lesbian Avengers, founded in the early 1990s, was an action group that worked to raise&#13;
public awareness of lesbian issues. The first action the new group took was to advocate for&#13;
rainbow curriculum in New York Public Schools by organizing a march and event at a public&#13;
school in Queens. Alice Austen House was brought to their attention by Amy Khoudari who was&#13;
at that time writing her Ph.D. dissertation on Alice Austen. The Lesbian Avengers staged a&#13;
protest on the day of a nautical festival, dressed in old-style bathing suits as lifeguards, bearing&#13;
life preservers with “Dyke Preserver” written on them. They stated that the board of the Alice&#13;
Austen House was denying Alice Austen’s existence as a lesbian and were advocating for the&#13;
museum to tell the whole story of her life, including her partner Gertrude Tate who was&#13;
unmentioned at that time. Both Maguire and Wolfe comment on the erasure of lesbian’s&#13;
contributions to the modern LGBTQ [Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Queer] movement&#13;
and in history. They also speak about the importance of visibility of lesbian and gay history in&#13;
general, and lesbian figures and history in particular, which has been under-represented, noting&#13;
that the Alice Austen House is the first queer national historic landmark to be given to a woman.&#13;
Political and lesbians activists, Anne Maguire and Maxine Wolfe founded the Lesbian Avengers&#13;
in the early 1990s. Anne Maguire, originally from Dublin, Ireland, came to New York City in&#13;
1987 and was one of the founders of ILGO, the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization. Maxine&#13;
Wolfe, a native of Brooklyn, was a professor at the City University of New York for over thirty&#13;
years and before she retired. She now volunteers with the Lesbian Herstory Archives and&#13;
previously was active with ACT UP.&#13;
&#13;
�Transcriptionist: Matthew Geesey&#13;
&#13;
Session: 1&#13;
&#13;
Interviewee: Anne Maguire, Maxine Wolfe&#13;
&#13;
Location: Brooklyn, New York, NY&#13;
&#13;
Interviewer: Liz H. Strong (Q1), Anthony&#13;
&#13;
Date: November 5, 2017&#13;
&#13;
Bellove (Q2)&#13;
&#13;
Q1: All right.&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Lights on. Watch your eyes.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Okay.&#13;
&#13;
Q2: And it is November 5, 2017. We are at the home of Maxine Wolfe with her dear&#13;
friend, Anne—&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Maguire.&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Maguire, a nice Italian name. And we’re at Park Slope, Brooklyn. And here we go,&#13;
clapping.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Anthony Bellov is the videographer—&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Yes, Anthony Bellov—&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 2&#13;
Q1: Liz is the interviewer; this is for the New York Preservation Archive Project.&#13;
&#13;
Q2: That’s all right. Now I’ll clap again.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: All right, thank you so much for being with us. As I said, we like to learn a little bit&#13;
about who you are to get started. So each of you in turn let me know when and where you&#13;
were born and a little bit about your life growing up.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Okay, I’ll start, Maxine Wolfe. I was born—you asked me where I was born. I&#13;
was born in Brooklyn, New York in Maimonides Hospital, which is not too far from here.&#13;
I grew up in Brooklyn and I’ve lived in Brooklyn all my life except for two years when I&#13;
lived in Copenhagen actually.&#13;
&#13;
So I moved to Park Slope in 1970. Otherwise I lived in Borough Park, Flatbush,&#13;
Midwood, everywhere in Brooklyn you could live. And I moved to this house thirty-three&#13;
years ago. Before then, I was a renter who was gentrified out three times as Park Slope&#13;
got gentrified.&#13;
&#13;
I’ve been a lesbian activist for a very long time. I’ve been a political organizer for a really&#13;
long time in lots of different movements. I have two daughters who are now in their—one&#13;
is fifty and the other is forty-seven. And that’s about it. I guess it’s good enough unless&#13;
you need more information.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 3&#13;
Q1: I’m going to ask some follow-up questions. How did you—I guess to go back&#13;
further, just tell me a little bit about your family life as a kid and what your life growing&#13;
up was like.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: My mother was an immigrant. She came to this country when she was fourteen&#13;
years old in 1927 and she was the first person—her father was here beforehand. He came&#13;
somewhat earlier, like seven years earlier and sent for her as the first person. And then&#13;
when Hitler was elected in 1933, he borrowed money and got everybody else out. So her&#13;
mother, my grandmother and my two uncles and one aunt came in 1933. We grew up in&#13;
Borough Park. My father’s family was originally from Austria and then moved to&#13;
England and then came here but they were here in the early part of the twentieth century.&#13;
He was the only one of his siblings that was born here. His other siblings were born in&#13;
Europe.&#13;
&#13;
I grew up in Borough Park and I went to PS 131 and I went to [John J.] Pershing Junior&#13;
High School [I.S. 220] and New Utrecht High School. And then I went to Brooklyn&#13;
College and I stayed at the City University [of New York] and got my Ph.D. Then I&#13;
became a professor at the graduate school of the City University in 1969-1970 and I&#13;
taught for thirty-some odd years and then I retired. And put my full time into both the&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives which I started volunteering at in 1984 and I still am a&#13;
volunteer there and a coordinator and doing all kinds of other political work which I’ve&#13;
done since I was a high school student.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 4&#13;
Q1: Talk to me about that transition in high school of getting involved in activism and&#13;
politics.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I always tell this story, which there was a girl that lived in my neighborhood&#13;
whose parents were very political and she invited me one time to hear Pete Seeger sing&#13;
when he was blacklisted. And he sang This Land is Made for You and Me and I believed&#13;
him. Seriously, that sounds stupid but it was true. I always—my family was not political&#13;
at all. My mother and father were not formally political or even at all political in the&#13;
sense that people think about it. Although from what I understand my grandfather was&#13;
but I never knew him. My grandmother just became more religious as she got older but&#13;
he died five years after he brought everybody to this country. So she was alone most of&#13;
that time.&#13;
&#13;
But they always had basic politics, in the sense of sort of very common sense working&#13;
class politics. For instance, once I asked my mother who she was voting for. I think I&#13;
must have been eleven. It’s when Adlai [E.] Stevenson [II] was running and she said she&#13;
wasn’t voting and I gave her a big argument about being an immigrant and why wasn’t&#13;
she voting. And her answer was, “Because none of them are for us. None of them are for&#13;
the working people.” That was my mother, okay [laughs].&#13;
&#13;
My father just never basically said much about it but she had those kinds of basic&#13;
understandings of the world. And she made us stay out of school when it was the Jewish&#13;
holidays even though she wasn’t religious at all in the sense of highly religious because&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 5&#13;
she said, “You always let people know you’re a Jew.” So that was the sort of legacy of&#13;
the Holocaust and losing so many people in her family. You always let people know&#13;
you’re a Jew.&#13;
&#13;
So those kinds of basic politics and I always felt—I think the first stuff that I got involved&#13;
in was about the Civil Rights Movement. Well, actually [Joseph] McCarthy probably&#13;
because I remember watching the McCarthy hearings at a neighbor’s house, but also&#13;
anything that had to do with civil rights. It just seemed like totally natural to me that&#13;
something was wrong with the world, that people of color were not—especially AfricanAmericans were not being treated right in this country.&#13;
&#13;
So that’s sort of my history. Then I just went from there to everything else. I did antiapartheid stuff, I did work about unions. I always feel like I have to be out there doing&#13;
something. It’s basically my modus operandi. I just feel like with the world being the way&#13;
it is, people have to speak up. And I think that was one of the premises what I learned&#13;
from my family, was that people have to speak up.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Thank you. I’m going to ask you to go on the same journey. Start telling me when&#13;
and where you were born and just a little bit about your life.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Okay, I was born in Dublin in Ireland in 1962 and grew up there, left when I&#13;
was twenty-five and came here to New York in 1987. So I’ve been here for thirty years&#13;
this year. October 1 was my thirtieth anniversary which I had forgotten until now.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 6&#13;
&#13;
So I grew up in Ireland, attended Catholic school, Ireland’s version of public school, on&#13;
the north side of Dublin, the eldest of four kids and also it’s interesting to hear the stories.&#13;
I also started to become kind of political or aware of politics in high school. It was around&#13;
the prisoner, Irish Republican prisoner stuff and the Dirty Protest or the Blanket Protest&#13;
as it was called because prisoners wanted to be treated as political prisoners—Irish&#13;
Republican prisoners in the north of Ireland, not in the south where I grew up. And they&#13;
were not being treated as political prisoners. They were in the regular criminal status.&#13;
&#13;
It culminated in what was called the Dirty Protest. So basically they weren’t allowed to&#13;
clean out their cells. I mean I’m not going to go into details because it was so kind of&#13;
disgusting but I was in the city when I was about fourteen in Dublin on a Saturday and&#13;
there was a big protest going through the streets. There were people just wearing blankets&#13;
because that was another term for it, it was also called the Blanket Protest because they&#13;
refused to wear prison clothing. So the authorities decided no clothing then. These&#13;
prisoners wore blankets.&#13;
&#13;
So it was the Blanket or the Dirty Protest and I do very clearly remember standing and&#13;
not being able to cross O’Connell Street and being furious that I couldn’t go about my&#13;
business because of this stupid protest. What were they doing down here anyway? It had&#13;
nothing to do with us in the south of Ireland.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 7&#13;
Then just for a split second, I thought, you actually don’t know anything about this, so&#13;
until you learn a little bit about why these people are marching in the streets in blankets&#13;
when it’s freezing cold, go off and like read about it or learn about it. I also had the&#13;
thought at the same time of, uh oh, this is not good because if I think this now and I go&#13;
and do the reading and figure out what’s going on and I think it’s wrong, then I have to&#13;
do something.&#13;
&#13;
So it was kind of like uh, oh, this is trouble. I know this is trouble. I can already tell this&#13;
is trouble. I guess that was the beginning of my road to trouble [laughter]. I’m causing&#13;
trouble and feeling like this is what you have to do sometimes. You should probably ask&#13;
a follow-up [unclear] [laughter].&#13;
&#13;
Q1: I will, yes. I’m just wondering—I’m waiting for you to finish your thought if you had&#13;
more but from there, tell me how you went about causing trouble. What were some of&#13;
your first engagements?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: So the first demonstration I went on, I was still in high school and it was during&#13;
the hunger strike. This was under Margaret [H.] Thatcher, same battle more or less, but&#13;
the next phase of it. It was when Bobby [Robert G.] Sands died. So he was the first of ten&#13;
political prisoners who died on hunger strike. When it happened, the country was kind of&#13;
waiting and waiting and waiting and not actually believing it would happen and thinking&#13;
Thatcher would have to figure out something. Then it came on the news that Bobby&#13;
Sands had died.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 8&#13;
&#13;
And I think I was fifteen and my brother was a year younger than me and we just sat at&#13;
home, looking at each other and then thought we need to go into the city center. It was&#13;
just an automatic thing. We went into the center of Dublin, outside the general post&#13;
office, which is kind of a spot—you just knew to go. We knew to go there. There was a&#13;
big demonstration. We were still very young. We didn’t understand everything but it was&#13;
a feeling of absolute rage and disbelief, and needing to do something, needing to be able&#13;
to put all that fury and confusion and grief into something.&#13;
&#13;
So we showed up at this thing and that was basically for both of us. He also got&#13;
personally involved and that’s where I started. I started with going on demonstrations,&#13;
going on marches, going to meetings. Then from there, I eventually found some people&#13;
that I was interested in hearing their point of views.&#13;
&#13;
So I would go to things that they were doing in particular. That’s where I learned about&#13;
feminism. There were a huge amount of feminists involved. So it was really political&#13;
prisoner stuff where I started and then the rest of my work in Ireland really was around&#13;
reproductive rights, abortion stuff, very little lesbian and gay stuff.&#13;
&#13;
I also worked on two general election campaigns for the civil rights leader, Bernadette&#13;
Devlin McAliskey, who ran against the Taoiseach (Prime Minister), and leader of the&#13;
Fianna Fail Party, Charles Haughey, in the early 1980s. Haughey happened to be running&#13;
in the constituency I grew up in, Dublin North-Central, which included Donnycarney. His&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 9&#13;
mother and two sisters lived on the street next to the street I grew up on. Since then I&#13;
have never worked for a candidate in an election in Ireland or in the US.&#13;
&#13;
I came out when I was in Ireland but didn’t do—besides letting everyone know that I was&#13;
a lesbian, doing this work and doing this work. I was not involved in any kind of gay&#13;
rights movement. I feel like that really solidified when I came here. I mean I went on Gay&#13;
Pride parades, like the first one in Dublin in 1985 or 1986. But the AIDS [acquired&#13;
immune deficiency syndrome] activism was just starting before I left. So basically I came&#13;
to New York and it was where I really met what I consider to be absolutely ferocious&#13;
lesbians and gay men [laughter]. That like blew my mind. I thought okay, this is the right&#13;
place at the right time [laughs].&#13;
&#13;
Q1: How did you come to the United States? What was that transition like?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I won a green card in a lottery and was basically desperate to get out of Ireland.&#13;
It was really—I mean the political stuff that had been going on had been horrifying. The&#13;
misogyny and the Catholic Church and it was totally homophobic and there was a whole&#13;
set of cases where a young fifteen-year-old died giving birth in a grotto in Leitrim, like in&#13;
the church car park. A teacher had been fired from a school because she was involved&#13;
with a separated married man and she had a child.&#13;
&#13;
There was just a whole series of absolutely horrifying political things going on. And I felt&#13;
like I just needed to get out of here for a while, just to get out. I just wanted to get out. I&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 10&#13;
did not want to come here. I didn’t want to go to England. I had been to London a few&#13;
times and found that anti-Irish stuff because it was extremely political and the IRA [Irish&#13;
Republican Army] were quite active. The anti-Irish sentiment in London I would not&#13;
have been able to handle it at all. It was really awful. Like for example, every time we&#13;
went, only Irish people had to fill in a really long form, which was called the Prevention&#13;
of Terrorism Act. It’s the kind of thing that’s going to be happening here soon. But Irish&#13;
people on the plane or on the ferry were the only people who had to fill in this form and&#13;
hand it in at customs or the passport check going to England.&#13;
&#13;
So there was a lottery and the whole country came to a standstill. There was very high&#13;
unemployment. Almost fifty percent of the population was under the age of twenty-five.&#13;
The unemployment rates were skyrocketing. I actually had a job but this was a whole&#13;
move here, which has now been discussed again. What is the visa, they’re calling it?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Diversity.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Diversity. This happened in the ‘80s and it was really focused on Irish people.&#13;
So it was Irish politicians worked this whole Donneley visa thing. You sent your name,&#13;
your date of birth—your name, address and your date of birth to a P.O. box in&#13;
Washington, D.C.&#13;
&#13;
And the country came to a total standstill because there were so many people applying. I&#13;
think the odds were a couple of thousand—couple of hundred thousand to one that you&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 11&#13;
would get it. I didn’t really want to come but as soon as I got that piece of mail from the&#13;
embassy, I was like I am so out of here. So I was one of the lucky ones and came here.&#13;
Within three months, I was gone.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: To New York?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: What was New York like? Was it your first visit?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes. I had a sister here. My younger sister was a nanny in Larchmont. From&#13;
high school, she had gone immediately out of high school to Larchmont and I had two&#13;
friends that I kind of knew, that I had gotten in touch with. So I moved in with them—&#13;
one, and she was moving right around the time that I was planning on coming. She said,&#13;
“You want me to look for a place for the two of us?” I said, “Yes.”&#13;
&#13;
So I moved into Park Slope actually, Tenth Street and Seventh Avenue for a year and my&#13;
sister eventually moved as a live-in nanny in Brooklyn. So we were like a little posse and&#13;
there were lots of Irish people here. Marie [Honan] knew Maxine already. This was the&#13;
woman I moved in with, the Irish woman, who I ended up being with and have been ever&#13;
since. But Marie had already met Maxine at an Irish political event. But there was also&#13;
the lesbian stuff. I think Maxine gave Marie her first ever tickets to the dance on the pier&#13;
around Gay Pride. So that connection was made immediately. And this Thanksgiving, I&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 12&#13;
went to my first ever Thanksgiving meal here in November 1987 and this year, I’ll be&#13;
back for my thirtieth at Maxine’s house. So I’ve basically known Maxine since I came&#13;
here.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: You were having Thanksgiving here in this very house?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes, in this house.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Tell me about that night if you can remember.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I just remember Anne and Marie coming. We always used to have a big crowd&#13;
and I asked them to come because I met Marie at some political meetings and we hit it&#13;
off. And she said that Anne was coming and I said, “Well, bring Anne.” And that was it.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: It was amazing. I mean I had been here a month and most of the table besides&#13;
Karen and Amy, Maxine’s daughters, were lesbians and gay men from ACT UP [AIDS&#13;
Coalition to Unleash Power].&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: ACT UP.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Feisty and ferocious and—&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 13&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Loud [laughs].&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And loud and opinionated and out there. I didn’t open my mouth for the whole&#13;
meal. It was just like oh, my god. It was culture shock. I also got quite a shock because I&#13;
thought, I’ve been out. I’ve been out in my life and I thought oh, my god, I so have not&#13;
been out. I don’t even know what that is anymore. So it was such a big deal. It was kind&#13;
of amazing.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: It was a lot of people too.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Huge.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Probably fifteen people for dinner and it was all people from ACT UP other than&#13;
my daughters. Yes, people were just going on and on and on and having opinions about&#13;
everything. When Anne told me afterwards, many years afterwards, what a shock it was.&#13;
I was like, right, it must have been horrifying [laughter]. She didn’t know anybody&#13;
except for Marie and everybody was blah, blah, blah which was the way Thanksgiving&#13;
always is here, which is that people just talk forever, cover every topic under the sun&#13;
from anything political to anything anything. Sex, politics, art—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Art, books.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 14&#13;
Wolfe: Books, whatever.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Family, everything.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Everything.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: How did you become connected with ACT UP originally?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: The way I became connected with ACT UP was in 1984, which was when I went&#13;
to the archives, in the early ‘80s, almost every group that I belonged to had fallen apart.&#13;
When [Ronald W.] Reagan was elected—people don’t really get it. So the way that I got&#13;
connected to ACT UP was that nothing was going on and I kept looking for something to&#13;
do politically. So I did individual things like there were demonstrations against Cruising,&#13;
the movie, and there was some bars in Times Square that had been raided by the cops.&#13;
There were just sort of these disparate demonstrations.&#13;
&#13;
Meanwhile AIDS had started but at that time, I was not really focused on that. The men&#13;
that I knew, I had been active in a couple of different mixed groups, men and women, gay&#13;
men and lesbians, and the men were not talking about AIDS at all at that time. In fact,&#13;
fortunately for them, most of those men never were infected.&#13;
&#13;
So I kept looking for things to do. Then this group started at the City University that I&#13;
was part of at the beginning which was called CUNY Lesbian and Gay People. I had also&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 15&#13;
done some things around the sodomy rulings and this incredible action, I think it was the&#13;
Statue of Liberty Centennial where we sort of busted downtown without a permit, to&#13;
protest against the sodomy ruling by the Supreme Court. That was when they upheld it.&#13;
&#13;
Then I went to some meetings of the Gay and Lesbian—what’s now called GLAAD [Gay&#13;
and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation] which then was called Gay Anti-Defamation&#13;
Group. But it was very top-down and I didn’t love it [laughs]. I had also gone to&#13;
Democratic Party things. I was just looking for what I could do that I would feel good&#13;
about.&#13;
&#13;
Then I was in this CUNY group and we went to Gay Pride that year as CUNY Lesbian&#13;
and Gay People and we were behind ACT UP on the march. I saw ACT UP and it looked&#13;
amazing and a friend of mine had also said, “There’s this new group that started that’s&#13;
meeting at the center. Do you want to go?” And I said, “Yes.” We said we’d go that&#13;
Monday. And this was Sunday.&#13;
&#13;
They were in front of me and they had this amazing tableau that year. It was the first year&#13;
of ACT UP and they had this concentration camp because it was at that time what’s his&#13;
name, Bennett⎯was it Bennett? No, it was—the other right-winger, who had sort of&#13;
suggested that gay men should be tattooed? Okay? It was sort of this whole concentration&#13;
camp mentality. There was a huge amount of homophobia around the AIDS stuff. And&#13;
they had built this concentration camp. They were wearing gas masks and they were&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 16&#13;
handing out these leaflets. And I went over to a woman and I said to her, “Are there&#13;
women in this group?” And she said, “Oh, yes, definitely.” I said, “Okay.”&#13;
&#13;
So Monday, I went to this meeting and I walked into this room and there were like four&#13;
hundred gay men and like four visible women [laughter]. I said, “Well, whatever.” I had&#13;
done some—and I didn’t know—one of the things that people don’t know about ACT UP&#13;
is that originally the group was not made up of people who had been active in New York&#13;
City lesbian and gay politics, at least no one that I knew—radical politics. Nobody that I&#13;
knew was in that room.&#13;
&#13;
So I just sat there for a month and I didn’t say anything. I just listened to what was going&#13;
on. I really thought it was a great thing because anybody could do anything. People had a&#13;
lot of energy, a lot of anger. If you had a good idea, you could do it and you could get up&#13;
and speak your mind.&#13;
&#13;
In fact, one of the first things that I did was to speak against something that Larry Kramer&#13;
said and I had no idea who Larry Kramer was at the time because I had not been involved&#13;
in kind of the mainstream gay part of the movement. And he stood up and we were doing&#13;
this action. He said something and I stood up and disagreed with him and everybody&#13;
gasped. I thought, “Oh, my God, what did I say?” I must have said something terrible and&#13;
no, the only thing was that I disagreed with him.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 17&#13;
And he never cared. He liked that people disagreed with him. Even if he would yell back&#13;
at you, it was only because he was arguing. I just felt really comfortable in the place. I&#13;
just felt this was a place that I could do something about something I cared about which&#13;
was AIDS and I stayed. I was very active in ACT UP for ten years, organized a lot of&#13;
actions and stuff. That’s how I got involved in ACT UP.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Now you guys are part of the founding core group of the Lesbian Avengers here in&#13;
New York. Tell me what led to that. What were some of the conversations that made you&#13;
think this group would be necessary?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Well, you also ought to ask Anne about ILGO because she was one of the people&#13;
who started the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization—&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Oh, yes.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: That did all the protests at the St. Patrick’s Day parade. That was sort of&#13;
dovetailed with ACT UP.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And the Avengers.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And the Avengers, yes.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Thank you. Let’s get those stories first.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 18&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Well, the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization, we started that in 1990 because&#13;
there were so many Irish immigrants here and it turned out a lot of people had fled&#13;
because they were gay or lesbian. And we started this group, met at the center. The vast&#13;
majority of the people in the group were undocumented and totally and utterly closeted.&#13;
Because I was such an experienced political activist at that point given that there were&#13;
very few people in the group that were, so there was a bunch of us who wanted to do&#13;
stuff.&#13;
&#13;
Basically the first political discussion we had was over naming the group, which&#13;
happened at our very first meeting. And there were a lot of people who wanted to give it&#13;
a Gaelic name like cairde which is friends in Gaelic. We’re like, uh-uh, nobody’s going&#13;
to know what that is. It’s so closeted, you know? So that was the first battle, whether we&#13;
were going to use a Gaelic name or say who we were.&#13;
&#13;
Then when it came to saying who we were, we wanted lesbian to come before gay and&#13;
that was a whole other battle. We wanted to be the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization&#13;
and not the Irish Gay and Lesbian Organization. So we had a little battle and at but one&#13;
meeting, after the very first meeting, we had a name. So I thought it was really important&#13;
one, that we were not going to be closeted and two, that lesbians were going to be&#13;
welcome in this group and were definitely going to be part of the leadership.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 19&#13;
So I think the kind of tie-in between that and the Avengers was the lesbian thing being&#13;
part of the leadership, saying we are here, we’re not going anywhere. We’re feisty. We’re&#13;
interested in power. We’re not backing away. So the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization&#13;
was very much like that. We had policies, like if anyone is invited anywhere, it has be a&#13;
gay man and a lesbian. Gay men do not go anywhere on their own representing us.&#13;
There’s always going to be a lesbian. And it turned out that most of the work in the group&#13;
was done by lesbians anyway.&#13;
&#13;
So at one point within our first year, somebody brought up at a meeting, “Wouldn’t it be&#13;
kind of funny if we marched in the St. Patrick’s Day parade?” Most of us were like, “Are&#13;
you kidding me?” But anyway, we sent in an application and it just completely blew up.&#13;
It totally blew up. Including ACT UP and AIDS, it was so totally and utterly homophobic&#13;
in the ‘90s. It was a massive wave and I think a lot had to do with the AIDS crisis.&#13;
&#13;
So we sent in an application. It was rejected. We were on a waiting list but Joe [Joseph]&#13;
Nicholson [Jr.] who was a gay reporter at The New York Post; he didn’t work as a gay&#13;
reporter. He was a gay man who was a reporter at The New York Post. And feisty and&#13;
willing to do the work. He tracked us down and the next day, it was on the front page of&#13;
The New York Post, “Irish Gay Furor”, or “St. Patrick’s Day Furor”. And the whole thing&#13;
blew up.&#13;
&#13;
So basically the group, we had to meet and decide are we going ahead with this or not?&#13;
And the people in the group who were quite political and active were saying we’re not&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 20&#13;
backing down. This is like they want us to be closeted. They want us to go away. We&#13;
cannot back down now, despite the fact that eighty percent of our membership were&#13;
completely closeted and terrified and also undocumented.&#13;
&#13;
So I stayed in that group for ten years and we marched in the first and only parade ever in&#13;
1991 with Mayor [David N.] Dinkins as an invited group, not as the Irish Lesbian and&#13;
Gay Organization, and were pelted with stuff, had people throwing beer cans and&#13;
screaming at us for the whole thing. Dinkins actually said it reminded him of Selma. He&#13;
never expected to experience anything like that in his life in New York City. He was&#13;
appalled by it.&#13;
&#13;
Then it turned, the group got quite radical. A lot of people totally came out of the closet,&#13;
told their family in Ireland so they could work on this. The Avengers started. The&#13;
Avengers got involved, people got involved in different stuff. And basically I stayed with&#13;
this for ten years and then it went on for twenty-five years. The first group got to&#13;
march—the first Irish gay group got to march this past March. So that’s twenty-five,&#13;
twenty-six years later. That’s how long it took them.&#13;
&#13;
So I think the Avenger thing tied in for me with the fact that a lot of lesbians were really&#13;
shocked that a lesbian was like so upfront in a group that was for gay men and lesbians&#13;
and it was a big deal. It was a big deal to have like an opinionated, tough, strong, very&#13;
political lesbian being a spokesperson for this group. It was quite unusual at the time for a&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 21&#13;
mixed group. So I think there must have been something simmering underneath, Maxine,&#13;
with the Lesbian Avengers and the timing.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Give me a little bit—both of you can help me with this, a little bit of context on that.&#13;
What were the expectations for women in queer rights organizations? What were the&#13;
dynamics that you were coming into in the ‘90s and why was it so unusual to see lesbians&#13;
in leadership?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Well, for a long time, if you read histories of the lesbian and gay movement, first&#13;
of all, they all focus on electoral politics and very few lesbians were involved in electoral&#13;
politics. Lesbians were involved in radical politics. So in organizing against the war, like&#13;
lesbians surrounded the Pentagon while other people were marching. So it was that kind&#13;
of thing or they formed like the peace camps or Greenham [Common Women’s Peace&#13;
Camp], where lesbians climbed over the fence and tried to destroy missiles.&#13;
&#13;
This is what lesbians were doing. They were part of the feminist movement and the&#13;
women’s movement, but the radical end of that, not the National Organization for&#13;
Women although there were lesbians there as well. I always—on the left, I had been&#13;
involved with mixed groups, it was never an issue but they were never like big mass&#13;
organizations. They were small ones, like a group called CRASH, which was the&#13;
Committee Against Racism, Anti-Semitism, Sexism, and Heterosexism and it was like a&#13;
leftie male and female group. But it was never anything that was visible or that was in the&#13;
newspaper or anything else.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 22&#13;
&#13;
Most of the other groups because of finances and also the difference in politics, were run&#13;
by gay men. They never gave any attention—and also the mainstream media, to them,&#13;
gay means men. They can’t pronounce lesbian. Getting the word out of their mouth&#13;
doesn’t work. If they described any organization, they would say it was gay. Even if&#13;
people eventually wrote about ACT UP, they would say all gay men or mostly gay men.&#13;
Well, the leadership of ACT UP was largely lesbians. We were the people who&#13;
organized, taught people how to do civil disobedience, organized the marshalling, did the&#13;
logistics of the actions and got arrested. My affinity group had loads of women in it and&#13;
we were organizing all the time. But originally that was not the way.&#13;
&#13;
So when you read the history, it always sounds like it was gay men. Then when people&#13;
describe what did lesbians do in the ‘70s, well, they were cultural. They did cultural&#13;
work. Yes, we had to start our own publishers, our own record companies, our own&#13;
everything because gay men wouldn’t publish our books. The straight press wouldn’t&#13;
publish our books and they wouldn’t publish our music.&#13;
&#13;
So yes, we did that but we also did stuff about the murder of children in Atlanta because&#13;
we also didn’t only do lesbian and gay politics. We did other politics. We did civil rights.&#13;
People marched at Selma who were lesbian. People did a lot of stuff around the murder&#13;
of the black children in Atlanta in the ‘80s and other kinds of issues like that. So in the&#13;
same way that in the Vietnam War movement, eventually women left to form the&#13;
feminist movement, lesbians left both of those to form a lesbian movement because none&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 23&#13;
of them were giving any play, any perspective on lesbians. So that was one of the biggest&#13;
issues.&#13;
&#13;
So everybody always talks about ACT UP as being one of—the AIDS crisis actually as&#13;
being one of the only times that lesbians and gay men worked together or one of the first&#13;
times that they visibly worked together in some kind of a radical movement. In ways&#13;
that’s true because beforehand, it was lesbians who were radical, not gay men, with&#13;
radical politics. So I think that was the big difference.&#13;
&#13;
But we also, when we started the Avengers, we felt, even though we had worked with&#13;
gay men and I kept working in ACT UP and Anne kept being in ILGO, we also felt really&#13;
strongly that we wanted to work with other lesbians to focus on lesbian issues because&#13;
there were lesbian issues that nobody was dealing with. Even in AIDS, people would&#13;
make fun of the fact that there could be lesbians who had AIDS and we knew lesbians&#13;
who had AIDS and they didn’t get it from a needle. But nobody would ever talk about&#13;
lesbian sex, so people couldn’t imagine. Like how could lesbians spread AIDS? Well,&#13;
they could spread AIDS because they have blood and other bodily fluids that are involved&#13;
in sex, if they’re not just doing sex the way people think that lesbians do it but they’re&#13;
actually having sex the way that lesbians have it.&#13;
&#13;
So even in the AIDS crisis, that became an issue. And also as lesbians in the AIDS crisis,&#13;
we did a lot of stuff about women in AIDS and that’s the other thing that people never&#13;
talk about when they talk about ACT UP, they always talk about drugs into bodies and it&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 24&#13;
was all about that—no. We also did work on changing the Centers for Disease Control&#13;
[and Prevention] definition to include women and poor people and the people who&#13;
spearheaded that were lesbians.&#13;
&#13;
We had these groups that worked together and my affinity group which had sixteen men&#13;
in it and eight women—I think it was sixteen and eight—those men worked on getting&#13;
the definition changed. They spent—and several of them are dead. They didn’t work on&#13;
drugs into bodies for themselves. They worked on making sure that other people could&#13;
get access to medication who were not even thought of as having HIV.&#13;
&#13;
So I think that those ideas and the idea of trying to work also in an all-lesbian group—&#13;
and also at that time, I should say that at that time, this group started—what was the name&#13;
of it? The one with the—the women’s group that you went to the meetings of?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: WAC, Women’s Action Coalition.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And they started doing stuff about abortion again. People called me and said,&#13;
“We’re going to start this group.” A group of lesbians called me to say, “We’re starting&#13;
this group.” And I said, “Is it a lesbian group?” They said, “No, it’s a women’s group.” I&#13;
said, “Been there, done that.” Fifteen years of working on abortion and then tried to get&#13;
people to deal with lesbian issues and they threw me out [laughs]. So I said, “I have done&#13;
that already. I’m not doing that again.”&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 25&#13;
So then I wanted to do some kind of an action group and I was friends with Sarah&#13;
Schulman at the time and I said to her, “We need to do something about getting lesbians&#13;
to do some actions.” There were those two women that I think were attacked on the&#13;
Appalachian Trail and nobody did anything.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Nobody did anything. And I said, “We’ve got to do something that’s like that.”&#13;
And she knew that Ana [M.] Simo who is a lesbian who was out for many, many years&#13;
and ran this theater company called Medusa’s Revenge, this theater group, the first&#13;
lesbian theater in New York, that she was interested in doing something as well. So Ana&#13;
and I met for lunch that May and we talked about different ways, different things that we&#13;
could do and we decided that we would each invite some people to a meeting. And so we&#13;
each asked our friends to come and the end result of that was Anne, Marie—her partner&#13;
Marie—Sarah Schulman, myself, Anne-[Christine] D’Adesky and who else?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: That’s it.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: That was it?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, six, only six of us.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 26&#13;
Wolfe: Six of us, yes. So we met at Ana’s house and we decided that we wanted to do&#13;
something and somehow we came up with the name, Lesbian Avengers. We said, “What&#13;
about the Avengers?” And somebody said, “Lesbian Avengers.” We said, “Great.” And&#13;
Ana’s son is the one who came with the logo, which was the anarchist bomb. He was the&#13;
one that suggested it. And we decided as a group that we wanted to do something.&#13;
&#13;
At that time, a big issue in New York was the rainbow curriculum. Well, we decided a&#13;
couple of things. We decided that we didn’t want to integrate gay bars, that we wanted to&#13;
do serious politics but in a really good way, a fun way and not like dour, but in some way&#13;
that would involve people. But it had to be not minor issues. Like sometimes people do&#13;
things, like oh, it’s an all male bar; we should go there and make them take women. We&#13;
didn’t care. That was not important to us.&#13;
&#13;
The rainbow curriculum was important. They were going to create this curriculum for the&#13;
public schools and it had three lines in it about gay people, three lines. And already these&#13;
people, superintendents and stuff were lining up against it. But really what they were&#13;
against was not just that it had three lines about gay people, it also had stuff about people&#13;
of color and it had the truth about Native Americans, minor things that had not been&#13;
included in the curriculum beforehand.&#13;
&#13;
So we decided we would do something about that. We decided that we would do it on the&#13;
first day of school but other than that, I think that the thing that made it work—and we&#13;
made up a club card, a little card that basically said—I have one inside. It said something&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 27&#13;
like lesbians, gay men, dykes; cold-blooded liars are in the White House, what are you&#13;
doing about it? Help us take revenge. Then it had a phone number. The phone number&#13;
was the one that was upstairs that was my daughter’s extension, their phone, because I&#13;
was getting phone calls. They were getting phone calls when they were teenagers. So I&#13;
got them a phone. The message said, “You have reached the Lesbian Avengers. We are&#13;
doing an action on the first day of school. We’re having a meeting on July sixth. Come to&#13;
the meeting and leave a message.”&#13;
&#13;
And the first message was from Lydia who left this message saying, “You are either my&#13;
dream or my nightmare. I hope you are not the sergeant behind the local desk.” And that&#13;
tape is at the archives. Anyway, so we decided that we’d hand out those at Gay Pride—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Thousands of them, six of us.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes. But we would not give them to any one that was already in a group, that we&#13;
would only give it to people on the sidelines because they were not committed to&#13;
anybody else. And we decided that—we also decided that we would not create the whole&#13;
action, just the concept so that people could own it.&#13;
&#13;
All of us were incredibly democratic and we did not want a top-down organization. We&#13;
wanted one from the bottom-up. But in the lesbian community at that time, when we had&#13;
tried to do that, it never went anywhere. If we called a meeting, everybody had their own&#13;
interests and nothing would happen.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 28&#13;
&#13;
So we decided we had to make it fait accompli. The group existed and by giving these&#13;
out, the women who came were taking a risk because who were we? We didn’t have our&#13;
names on it. It didn’t say who we were. It just was a phone number and telling people to&#13;
come to a meeting. So the women who came were definitely risk-takers, which is what&#13;
we wanted. What else did we do that was—I think that was it.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: That was it. It was really the palm card, like thousands of palm cards at Gay&#13;
Pride.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: We gave them out the entire time.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: So the first meeting was on July 6 and sixty lesbians showed up. And we each&#13;
took a head—ran a committee. Like I did the logistics and Ana did—well, Sarah did&#13;
media. And who did research? I think you did—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I did research on the rainbow stuff—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Did you do research?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 29&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Research and then somebody did props or something like that. Then other people&#13;
in the room joined those committees. So by doing that, it wasn’t us running it—and we&#13;
didn’t even pick the place. The research committee, totally luck involved, ended up&#13;
picking this district in Middle Village, Queens where nobody goes to do actions because&#13;
most of the people who do organizing, they don’t go to places where they’re not wanted.&#13;
They go to the [Greenwich] Village. Who wants to give out things in the Village? It’s&#13;
like speaking to the converted.&#13;
&#13;
So this was Middle Village and the woman who was the superintendent was a&#13;
homophobe par excellence. She had basically said that would be no rainbow curriculum,&#13;
over her dead body [laughs]. She was like so amazing. Mary Cummins was her name.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, she was pretty bad.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: She was terrible. She was the worst and she was getting all this publicity. So she&#13;
basically gave us publicity. So we arranged this first action out in Middle Village,&#13;
Queens. We arranged to do a march through the village, through the main street to the&#13;
public school and to do something on the first day of school. And we ended up having a&#13;
band, a women’s band was in the front singing, We Are Family. And then we had a big&#13;
banner that said “Teach About Lesbian Lives.”&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And t-shirts.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 30&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And t-shirts that said, “I Was a Lesbian Child.” And then we had balloons. The&#13;
balloons said, “Ask about Lesbian Lives.” I think that one of the interesting things was&#13;
we decided, the six of us that we would do this if nobody else wanted to. The six of us&#13;
would do it. So when we had at the first meeting, as I said, were the risk-takers and they&#13;
were all totally behind it. But at the second meeting, other people had come who had&#13;
heard about it and they were the naysayers. So they would say things like—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: “Stay away from children.”&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Right.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: “We cannot be near children.”&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Right, and they would say, “This is the first day of school and you’re going to&#13;
make it terrible.” I said to them, “Do you have any kids?” I said, “I have two kids. This is&#13;
going to be the best first day of school they have ever had. There’s going to be a&#13;
marching band and balloons and everything.” [Laughter].&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I said “And the second day is going to be totally disappointing and depressing.”&#13;
Then they would say something like, “Well, but the balloons, it’s like manipulating kids.”&#13;
I said, “If it said, Save the Whales, would it be okay?” It’s like homophobia and fear&#13;
which people have—because we were going into this hostile environment basically.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 31&#13;
Well, we went to Middle Village, Queens and we marched down that street and there&#13;
were loads of people supporting us. They came out—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: The children took the balloons. Some of them didn’t have parents saying,&#13;
“Don’t give my child a balloon.” They walked to school holding their balloons and asked&#13;
about lesbian lives.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: One woman made her kid—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, one out of all of them.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: One out of all of them and nobody got arrested. The cops were there finally when&#13;
we got to the school and of course, they tried to tell us that we couldn’t march on the&#13;
sidewalk and we told them what the law was. They had to let us do it. And then it was all&#13;
over the newspapers and that sort of launched the Lesbian Avengers.&#13;
&#13;
So those were the kinds of actions that we tried to do the whole time. We did a lot of&#13;
really wonderful—we actually worked on Boycott Colorado stuff and prevented the&#13;
mayor of Denver from continuing his economic development tour of New York. He left&#13;
because every radio station he went to asked him questions about the anti-gay proposition&#13;
because we did demonstrations in front of everyone while he was there. We called in on&#13;
the phone. We followed him around, including to the Plaza Hotel. We were just fearless.&#13;
We really didn’t care.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 32&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I wouldn’t say we were fearless. I always have a tremendous amount of fear&#13;
and anxiety going into these things but fearless in a different way. Doing all those&#13;
actions, it can be—I guess part of it is you never really know what’s going to happen and&#13;
if some maniac is going to be there. There’s always an element of fear and anxiety—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Which is good.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, I think it’s normal. But I also think people don’t get that about activism or&#13;
activists. We’re just out there shouting our heads off, waving banners and never about the&#13;
thought that goes behind it and what it actually means for a person to go out there with&#13;
our bodies and do this thing.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: We always plan things very, very well. We always had somebody who was there,&#13;
a legal person. I mean I agree, when I say fearless, I mean we went and did it.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I know.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: But you always have to be anxious enough to be careful and to see what’s going&#13;
on. So we did things like that here and also one of the things that grew out of the Lesbian&#13;
Avengers was a civil rights organizing project. In 1994, there were all these bills around&#13;
the United States that were anti-gay bills. There was a proposition in Oregon that would&#13;
make it legal to discriminate against gay people and these two people were killed. A&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 33&#13;
bomb went off in their basement apartment, a disabled gay man and a lesbian of color&#13;
and both of them were killed. And people didn’t get that. This was the same kind of stuff&#13;
you were seeing during the civil rights movement.&#13;
&#13;
So we got in touch with people across the United States—lesbians across the United&#13;
States to ask them if they needed help. In all of these different states, we traveled.&#13;
Usually two of us would go to introduce ourselves because we knew that we had&#13;
resources and in a lot of the smaller places, they didn’t.&#13;
&#13;
So we did some work first with some people in Maine about an anti-gay resolution or bill&#13;
there and then we ended up doing a big action in New York around the anti-violence&#13;
march that pointed out the information about all the anti-gay bills that were in the United&#13;
States and the killing of these two people.&#13;
&#13;
That was when we started eating fire which was our trademark and people always think&#13;
that that was a joke but we did that because on this anti-violence march, one of the&#13;
Lesbian Avengers gave—the anti-violence project asked people to do something at&#13;
different places. So we set up a shrine and we actually slept out there for four days from&#13;
the night of Halloween to the election which was the following Tuesday. And people&#13;
could bring candles and people brought candles for people with AIDS and not just for the&#13;
people who were bombed in Oregon. So it became a shrine to all the violence that people&#13;
in our communities had experienced.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 34&#13;
And one of the things, the first night there was a march and you stopped at each of these&#13;
places. And we stopped. This woman, Lysander gave a talk and basically one of the&#13;
things that she said was that people, that you’re are afraid and there’s a reason to be&#13;
afraid but what you should do is take the fear and put it in you and then make it your own&#13;
and have it come out as anger and determination to do something.&#13;
&#13;
So we had one woman who taught us how to eat fire and a group of women stood in a&#13;
circle and swallowed the fire as other people chanted, “We take the fire within us and we&#13;
take it and make it our own.” And that was the point of it. It wasn’t like a joke. It was to&#13;
basically say you can be afraid but you need to do something and not let people’s fear get&#13;
you to run away. Instead you should come out and do something.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: On that thought, I kind of wanted to go back. It struck me that you said a lot of&#13;
people don’t understand how activists feel. You mentioned fear but we didn’t really get&#13;
to go into a specific experience and I was wondering if you could say a little more about&#13;
that and draw out that experience and what is important for people to understand about&#13;
how you feel going into a situation like this.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Well, I guess every action is kind of different. I think the thing with direct&#13;
action in particular is that everything is involved. You are going out with your body and I&#13;
think for groups like the Avengers and for ILGO and experience direct activism makes it&#13;
easier because you know everyone has your back. While you can never predict what’s&#13;
going to happen, the great thing is—I mean I always have anxiety. I’m always scared.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 35&#13;
I’m always worried that the thing I’m supposed to do with the banner is not going to&#13;
happen and very recently I did have a whole banner thing that didn’t happen and it’s&#13;
disappointing but we got to keep our banner.&#13;
&#13;
But I think it’s just being aware of everyone around you, being aware that people have&#13;
your backs. While I am always scared, I’m also always like totally, full on for it. Okay,&#13;
I’m going out here and all these people are with me. We also have support and if&#13;
something goes wrong, I kind of know we’re all going to figure it out together. It’s not&#13;
going to be I’m going to be left here on my own because I fell or I got thwacked or&#13;
something went wrong, I went in the wrong door, where we’re supposed to be going&#13;
somewhere else.&#13;
&#13;
It’s a commitment. I mean it’s a commitment everyone makes. We make it to each other.&#13;
We make it to this action we’ve all been working on for quite awhile. I do know that&#13;
people think, oh, also now we’re paid. We don’t have jobs. We’re like on George Soros’&#13;
payroll. In fact, no, I’ve had a full-time job all this time for the last forty years. I have&#13;
always had a full-time job. I take my vacation time. I take my personal days to do actions.&#13;
And most activists are like that.&#13;
&#13;
I don’t think it’s people who don’t agree with your position. Sometimes it’s people who&#13;
feel guilty because they feel like, “Oh, I should really be doing something but I go on one&#13;
march a year and I know it’s not enough.” So I think sometimes there’s a kind of attitude&#13;
about out there, shouting your heads off, waving your placards, blah, blah, blah. But you&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 36&#13;
know, you’ve been doing it for your entire life. I’ve been doing it for my entire life and&#13;
there’s a reason why we’re doing it and it’s valid and it takes guts and it takes a huge&#13;
amount of commitment.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I would also say that there’s real fear. I have been pushed around by the police. I&#13;
have been handcuffed too tight and my wrists have turned blue. I’ve been on a bus in&#13;
South Carolina with a cop who had a knife in his boot. The very first ACT UP action we&#13;
did at Cosmo [Cosmopolitan Magazine], the women’s committee, there was a cop that&#13;
came after me with a club.&#13;
&#13;
It’s also, there are actual reasons to be afraid about the possibility of physical harm and&#13;
it’s often coming from police. But it can also come from counter-protestors as we saw in&#13;
Charlottesville and so when you go out and you make a commitment to do this, you have&#13;
no idea who’s going to be out there. One of the things that we do when we teach civil&#13;
disobedience and teach marshalling is to teach people how to handle hecklers and people&#13;
who come after you, so that you don’t engage them and you don’t escalate it but&#13;
sometimes you don’t do anything and they do it.&#13;
&#13;
And if you’re going to resist arrest, if you’re going to do civil disobedience and resist&#13;
arrest and police pick you up, they throw you into the van and they don’t care if you hurt&#13;
your back. And there are people who have hurt their backs. There was a woman at the&#13;
Matthew—what was his name?&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 37&#13;
Maguire: Shepard.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Shepard, a very spontaneous action that happened in New York where thousands&#13;
of people showed up and nobody originally organized it. It’s just like thousands of people&#13;
showed up. And it’s sort of like the first Occupy [movement] thing. So some of us who&#13;
had experience as marshalls, we just immediately—it kicked into gear even though we&#13;
hadn’t organized it. One woman got hit by a horse and to this day, she limps. There’s a&#13;
guy that I know who got a concussion. So there are things that can happen that are&#13;
actually physically terrible. Most of the fear is about what can happen that you have no&#13;
idea what’s going to be out there. So you have to sort of go—and that’s why what Anne&#13;
was saying is true. One of the best ways to do it is be with a group of people who you&#13;
know and you know you can count on.&#13;
&#13;
So in ACT UP, we had an affinity group structure where small groups worked together.&#13;
So you knew those people really well and whatever you organized to do together, you&#13;
knew that they would be there. It’s also how you organized support structures, so&#13;
somebody who’s going to follow, find out what jail you’re taken to and be there while&#13;
you’re there and when you come out. One action that I was in ACT UP, we were strip&#13;
searched, which was illegal. We knew that was illegal. When we came out, there were&#13;
lawyers there. We said we’ve got to do something about this, this was illegal, and we&#13;
ended up suing the city.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 38&#13;
So there’s actually the possibility of physical violence as well as just the pumped-up-ness&#13;
of the fact that you’re going into this situation that you have no idea and also, that when&#13;
you’re in those situations, you have to be self-confident because the police lie. No offense&#13;
to the police, actually, in that sense. We have a job to do. They have a job to do.&#13;
&#13;
Now that’s not excusing physical violence but I’m saying even in general when they’re&#13;
not physically violent, when we do the Dyke March, the cop will say—I’ll say to one of&#13;
the police, like, “We need to stop because there’s a gap in the march.” “Oh, no, there’s no&#13;
gap in the march.” I never believe them. Okay, it’s just something you learn. It’s not to&#13;
do that. So that’s what the physical—just the courage that you need to do things and the&#13;
confidence.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: It’s significant then that you target specifically bringing in people that have never&#13;
been involved or not currently involved in anything before. So talk to me about working&#13;
with people you personally didn’t know. Talk to me about training people who didn’t&#13;
have the skills already. Do people stick with it after this initial onboarding? Was there a&#13;
lot of turnover? Just talk to me about that whole process and experience.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: You have more to say. You were more involved at the beginning of the&#13;
Avengers and I was back with the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: People stayed. ACT UP had people come and go but a huge number of people&#13;
stayed and a huge number of people kept doing activism when they left ACT UP, other&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 39&#13;
kinds of activism. That is one of the points but one of the things is we did trainings. One&#13;
of the things again that people don’t know is we did teach-ins first of all. When we did&#13;
work with—&#13;
&#13;
Q1: As ACT UP or as the Lesbian Avengers?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Both. So if we were doing something about an issue that we wanted to target, we&#13;
learned everything we could about it. So in ACT UP, one of the things we did was, we&#13;
did teach-ins about the [United States] Food &amp; Drug Administration, when we did a big&#13;
action there, about the National Institutes of Health, about the Center for Disease&#13;
Control’s definition of AIDS. We wrote booklets. We wrote books actually. The ACT UP&#13;
Women’s Caucus wrote a book about women in AIDS but before we wrote the book, we&#13;
did a teach-in and we made a photocopy booklet which ended up being—we made fifteen&#13;
hundred copies and not only did we give them out at all of our teach-ins at ACT UP but&#13;
we sent them all over the world.&#13;
&#13;
And eventually when we needed support from people in other parts of the world to get&#13;
that definition changed, they came to do it because they understood how it affected them.&#13;
So the teach-ins were one way that people learned but we also did trainings. We did civil&#13;
disobedience training. So whenever we had an action, we asked if there were any people&#13;
who hadn’t been trained and if they hadn’t been, we did civil disobedience trainings. We&#13;
did marshal trainings. We did facilitator trainings, so that if you were facilitating a&#13;
meeting, you were trained. We did those in the Avengers; we did those in ACT UP.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 40&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And then the booklets.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: The booklets, yes.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: The booklets, the Lesbian Avengers have a handbook and it is just the best&#13;
thing ever. It’s the A to Z of how to have a direct action group, what you need, if you’re&#13;
doing an action, a check-off list of all the things you need to have covered, running a&#13;
meeting, facilitating, organizing outside—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Examples of leaflets.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Leaflets, yes.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Press releases.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Press releases, everything. And part of it came from an ACT UP handbook and&#13;
we did the same thing in the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization. It’s like okay; this is&#13;
your first year doing this. Here’s a history, here are the players, here’s what we do. This&#13;
is when our trainings are. So those things get moved around from group to group. And&#13;
now the Lesbian Avenger handbook is being used in Rise and Resist which formed after&#13;
the election of Donald [J.] Trump and people open it up and start reading and go, “Oh,&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 41&#13;
my God. This is the best thing I have ever seen.” So it’s like okay [crosstalk]. Here you&#13;
go. It’s fantastic.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And one of the big things that we did in the Lesbian Avengers was the civil rights&#13;
organizing project and we ended up in Idaho because there was a group—we wanted to&#13;
make sure that we were invited somewhere. We didn’t just come somewhere. And there&#13;
was a group of Lesbian Avengers that formed after—we did the first dyke march in&#13;
Washington, the night before the 1993 march on Washington and twenty thousand&#13;
lesbians showed up without a permit and we marched to the White House. And from that,&#13;
all these chapters started and they started all over the country.&#13;
&#13;
So this group in Idaho invited us to come and help them because there was an anti-gay&#13;
amendment in Idaho. So six lesbian—we raised money from our friends and six Lesbian&#13;
Avengers went and lived there for ten months. And then ten of us came on weekends,&#13;
various weekends and we organized. And we organized direct action in Moscow, Idaho;&#13;
Boise, Idaho; Sandpoint, Idaho, all over Idaho to get—not just to be against the anti-gay&#13;
amendment but to organize people there to come out. And we got support. We did&#13;
actions. We also wrote stuff up for people there.&#13;
&#13;
So we ended up finding one lesbian who lived in a small town that was sort of a center&#13;
for the AFL-CIO [American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial&#13;
Organizations] because they had logging unions. And she ended up getting—we ended&#13;
up going with her to the local AFL-CIO chapter. They wrote a letter that we put in a&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 42&#13;
brochure. Then we went door to door with her and gave it out and we had the support of&#13;
the AFL-CIO. We went to the Nez Perce reservations and worked with Native&#13;
Americans. We went to Sandpoint and worked with the local librarian because part of&#13;
this law would have eliminated gay books from the library. This was a straight man and&#13;
he had no problem working with the Lesbian Avengers. We did a march in Sandpoint,&#13;
Idaho.&#13;
&#13;
So eventually the proposition was defeated and one of the things that was in the local&#13;
paper was that the most surprising thing was that the rural areas that we worked in, voted&#13;
against the amendment and that that was something totally surprising that nobody&#13;
expected. The mainstream lesbian and gay groups that were campaigning were doing all&#13;
top-down campaigning with videos and television advertising and whatever but they&#13;
weren’t going to these places. We went to these places and also in one of the small towns,&#13;
a group of lesbians and gay men who had never been out, came out. They did a panel at&#13;
the local community center and then eventually when we left had formed a group to&#13;
continue the work.&#13;
&#13;
So when I say that we wanted to do serious stuff, that’s what I mean. What we did there&#13;
was fun. We had things like we went to the county fair and did all kinds of actions that&#13;
people could relate to but they were about a serious issue and we followed through on it.&#13;
&#13;
So those kinds of things, for instance being in Idaho, that took courage because a lot of&#13;
the—Sandpoint had a big right-wing community. A lot of places have that and we just&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 43&#13;
said, “If we’re not willing to go there, then what’s the point?” Every movement teaches&#13;
another. One of the things that the civil rights movement made clear is that you need to&#13;
go to the belly of the beast. If you’re not going to go there, what’s the point?&#13;
&#13;
So that is something that ACT UP did, that the Avengers did, that ILGO did which is you&#13;
don’t just stay in your neighborhood. You don’t just go where there are people who agree&#13;
with you. You have to go to places where people don’t agree with you. And the one other&#13;
thing that I guess where we differ from as just sort of a—I don’t even know the word for&#13;
it but kind of this touchy-feely thing, is that it’s not about having to just have dialog with&#13;
people. It’s showing people that you are someone to be reckoned with.&#13;
&#13;
And that was always especially important for the gay movement because the image of the&#13;
gay movement and especially of gay men but also just of gay people in general was that&#13;
we kind of were like these sort of flimsy faggots and dykes who really weren’t going to&#13;
do anything because we didn’t have any courage. So Stonewall [riots] started the image&#13;
of no, don’t screw with us. But it’s a very important thing to say to people, “You cannot&#13;
tell me that I am less than you and you cannot do something that makes me less than you.&#13;
So I have to be here as a full human being. I’m not going to stand for certain things that&#13;
you’re going to do and I’m not going to be nice about it.”&#13;
&#13;
I’m not going to be violent about it. Everything that we’ve ever done has been nonviolent but it was strong and definite and courageous, I think. I met some wonderful&#13;
people. I mean the people who did all this were just amazing people. And you wouldn’t&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 44&#13;
meet them on the street and say, “Oh, that’s an amazing person.” But they were amazing&#13;
people. They basically did things that were way out of their comfort zone.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Thank you for that. Let’s take a short break.&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Perfect.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: And then we’ll move on and talk about the Alice Austen House [laughter].&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: When we went to the middle of the belly of the beast.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: The women with rolled gloves who were so nasty.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Oh, my God, I can’t wait for that story. How long does it take to change your&#13;
battery?&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Oh, I don’t have to change the battery out. I actually—I need to break just to create a&#13;
new file.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 45&#13;
Q1: Okay.&#13;
&#13;
[INTERRUPTION]&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Okay, and this is the November 5, 2017 interview with Maxine Wolfe and Anne&#13;
Maguire.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Maguire. I’m going to give you my name, the spelling too.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: I have it. He doesn’t.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And it’s Wolfe with an “e”.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Yes, it is.&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Anthony Bellov’s videographer, Liz Strong is the interviewer and I’m going to clap.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: So tell me a little bit about how you heard first about what was going on with the&#13;
history of the Alice Austen House, whoever wants to take that away.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Do you want to start?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I think you probably heard first from the academic.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 46&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: [Laughs] So how did we hear about the Alice Austen House? This researcher,&#13;
Amy [S.] Khoudari, is how I think you pronounce her name, came to an Avenger&#13;
meeting. She had also been at the archives doing research but she came to an Avenger&#13;
meeting and she basically said to us that she had been doing research about Alice Austen&#13;
who was this very famous photographer. And that she had been doing her research at&#13;
Alice Austen House and it was for her Ph.D. dissertation.&#13;
&#13;
And she did a talk in Staten—so the Alice Austen House is in Staten Island and she did a&#13;
talk in Staten Island. She was invited to do a talk, not at the Alice Austen House but&#13;
somewhere else and I don’t even know where and she gave that talk. The next time she&#13;
went to the Alice Austen House, she sort of was cold-shouldered and they started telling&#13;
her that she couldn’t have access to everything. And previous to that, she had gone there&#13;
and done a lot of research but suddenly they were restricting how often she could be there&#13;
and what she could see, et cetera. And she knew that it had to be about the fact that when&#13;
she gave this talk about Alice Austen, she mentioned that she was a lesbian, that she had&#13;
lived in the Alice Austen House with her partner, Gertrude Tate for more than thirty&#13;
years. And that they must have been homophobic and they really didn’t want this to be&#13;
the perception of the Alice Austen House.&#13;
&#13;
And she also kind of implied that it was a very conservative board that ran the Alice&#13;
Austen House and that they were never going to be happy about it. So she told us that&#13;
they were having this nautical festival that they have every year and that it would be a&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 47&#13;
good place to leaflet people because the whole board would be there and then all these&#13;
people who come to this festival and some of them are members. I guess there was a&#13;
membership thing that you could be at the Alice Austen House.&#13;
&#13;
So we got together and we decided to leaflet—we don’t just want to leaflet. What can we&#13;
do that’s more interesting than just leafleting? So do you want to pick it up from there?&#13;
Go ahead.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Well, we both went out to Alice Austen House. We thought we should go out&#13;
and check out the whole place, how to get there and what was there to see. And we found&#13;
they had a video, so you could sit and watch this little video about her life and her work.&#13;
The house had a name, it was like Sunny—I can’t—&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Clear Comfort.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Clear Comfort, that’s it. So basically a little bit of history about the house but&#13;
absolutely nothing about Gertrude Tate, her partner and nothing about the fact that she&#13;
was a lesbian. And this is a fake of the brochure they had. So they had a brochure in the&#13;
little store where they also showed the video. So we bought a copy of the brochure and&#13;
then we made our own. And decided because it was a nautical theme and there would be&#13;
song, that we needed to write our own songs and that we should go dressed as turn of the&#13;
century, so it would have been turn of last century in the funny bonnets and stripy—&#13;
[crosstalk].&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 48&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Like lifeguards, we were going to save her.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Lifeguards. So basically we were going to come and save Alice Austen from&#13;
the board of the Friends of Alice Austen House.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And the homophobia, right. So we sort of had these shower caps and we wore&#13;
striped tops so that we looked like we were from the turn of century, bathers or&#13;
lifeguards. Then we made these life preservers from the inner tubes of tires and we wrote&#13;
Dyke Preserver on it. Then we made up this brochure. Anne wrote everything in this&#13;
brochure. It’s funny. I don’t know if you want me to read any part of it.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Sure, if you have a favorite piece. Go for it.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I’ll just read the end of it. The end of it says, “We have come as lesbian lifeguards&#13;
to rescue Alice Austen from the homophobes. Too often our history is denied us. Our&#13;
papers, diaries, photographs and letters have been destroyed, lost, buried and deliberately&#13;
misinterpreted. Here at the Alice Austen House museum, there is a wealth of lesbian&#13;
herstory. Because Alice can’t tell the liars on the board to take a hike and to get the hell&#13;
off her lesbian land, we’re here to do it. We demand that Alice Austen’s lesbian identity&#13;
become an integral part of the museum’s interpretation of her life. If the board refuses to&#13;
embrace the real Alice Austen, they should resign and take their sinking ship of&#13;
lesbophobia with them. We are dyke preservers and we know all about Alice Austen. We&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 49&#13;
will preserve and celebrate Alice Austen’s life long after the liars and the homophobes&#13;
are gone. This here is a lesbian museum.”&#13;
&#13;
And we called it a national historic lesbian landmark. The thing that was interesting, I&#13;
think, besides the thing, she was an amazing photographer and she took photographs of&#13;
many, many parts of the city. She was amazing, A, that she was a woman photographer at&#13;
her time. She carried around heavy photographic equipment. It wasn’t lightweight and&#13;
she took it to the Lower East Side. She took it all over the city.&#13;
&#13;
But she also took these amazing photographs of her friends in these very funny tableaus&#13;
that were kind of in drag. She has one where three women are dressed as men. She has&#13;
women dancing with each other in couples. One of her most famous ones is this one of&#13;
women couples dancing. She had them dressed as Romeo and Juliet characters. She just&#13;
used her friends to make the most funny, lesbian, gay photographs. And they’re historic&#13;
because they were of that moment which is from the turn of the century really. And none&#13;
of that was there.&#13;
&#13;
None of those photographs were there and no mention of it and no mention of Gertrude&#13;
Tate and it’s a sad story because Alice Austen was a spendthrift. She threw away her&#13;
entire family fortune and at the end of her life was a pauper. And the only place that there&#13;
was for her—for years, she and Gertrude Tate lived in an apartment of their own and they&#13;
couldn’t afford it. Then Gertrude had relatives out on Long Island, but they didn’t want&#13;
the two of them to come together.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 50&#13;
&#13;
And so Alice Austen ended up in a poor person’s—a pauper house and died there alone.&#13;
Gertrude would come and visit her but she was alone. And then this entire history was&#13;
erased. It was so sad and angering that she would get no—that Gertrude would get&#13;
absolutely made invisible and that no one would know that these people were devoted to&#13;
each other, these two women, for thirty years.&#13;
&#13;
So that’s why we wanted to do something, but in the typical Avengers fashion. So we&#13;
made these brochures, which by the way, at the end of our action, we went into the&#13;
bookstore and put them in every single book in the bookstore. So that anyone who bought&#13;
something would find the actual—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: The real story.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: The real story of Gertrude. But we also—it was a nautical day and we wanted to&#13;
engage the people that were there. So we started by walking down the street with—oh,&#13;
we started on the Staten Island ferry and before we got on the ferry, we sang all the songs&#13;
waiting for the ferry. Then we sang the songs on the ferry which believe it or not, turned&#13;
out to be the Alice Austen ferry which we were just like oh, my goodness, we got the&#13;
Alice Austen ferry. Then we marched from the ferry to the house and we came down the&#13;
block and we marched into the nautical thing singing, [singing] “Ho, Ho, Homo Sex,&#13;
Homosexual. Alice and Gertrude were lesbians and we are as well!” [Laughs].&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 51&#13;
Maguire: Over and over.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Over and over and over. And by the way, these songs were written by Anne and&#13;
myself and my friend, Ed [Edward T.] Rogowsky who is no longer with us. He died some&#13;
years ago, but who loved music and he was so happy to write these songs with us. And&#13;
they were really great and some of them were exactly about what it was. This one was&#13;
about the photos that she took.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Oh, yes, so we made blowups—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Blowups of her photographs.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: —of her photographs. So we had these big black and white blowups of her&#13;
photographs and then we had a song to go, so we could hold up the photos we were&#13;
actually referring to. We did this because they had singers there. So what actually&#13;
happened was they sang one song—and we actually worked this out with them, under&#13;
their little tent and then it was our turn. Then they sang one and then we sang our next&#13;
one. So it actually got completely incorporated into what was going on at the time, which&#13;
was great.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes. This one—you just have to read this. Okay, [singing] “Alice Austen was a&#13;
dyke, Alleluia. Alice Austen on a bike, Alleluia. Alice Austen dressed in drag, Alleluia.&#13;
Alice Austen with a fag, Alleluia.”&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 52&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: It goes on.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: So we had all of these where we pointed out all her different photographs—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Her work. We had Alice Austen drinking beer.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Right and Alice Austen, you were queer. “Alice Austen, your lesbian life was not&#13;
in vain because we’ll come back again and again.” Anyways, it was about preserving&#13;
history, Yellow Submarine. We used a lot of songs. And they were all water songs. It was&#13;
amazing and then we also had like a dance routine that we did.&#13;
&#13;
So after we did our whole thing and we tried talking to these women on the board and&#13;
they were just, get out of our faces. They were just so nasty and there was a gay man who&#13;
was on the board, one gay man who was on the board actually supported us. The other&#13;
gay man who was on the board was the director and he was totally closeted and he was&#13;
furious. So these two young women who were not lesbians, they were just women who&#13;
were there with their families. They were maybe fourteen or fifteen, those girls, they&#13;
came over and they said, “We understand why you’re saying this but maybe if you were&#13;
nicer about it, maybe if you sent letters.” So we said, “We sent letters and they just don’t&#13;
pay any attention to us. So we need to do something for them to get their attention.”&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 53&#13;
So we didn’t know this but she had gone over and spoken to this guy on the board, the&#13;
director of the board. Anyway, we did this whole thing and then we marched through the&#13;
whole thing. Then we went into the bookstore and stuffed every book with the brochures&#13;
that we made.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And we left a life preserver on—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: On the front fence.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: On the picket fence before we left.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Then we walked out and these two young women came up to us and they said that&#13;
they had gone up to the guy who was the director of the board and told him, that he&#13;
should listen to us because we had something important to say. He gave them his card&#13;
and said that they should bring it to us and tell us to call him and come and meet with&#13;
him. So that was just nice that they actually were moved to do something because that’s&#13;
why we do stuff, right? It’s not just to do it; it’s to have an impact. So we did that and&#13;
then we went home on the Alice Austen ferry. It was there again. So actually Alice&#13;
Austen was with us all the way. Then we tried to get in touch with them.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: We did write a letter. We had a follow-up letter—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: A lot of people, yes.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 54&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And other people wrote letters and the offer of the meeting disappeared&#13;
immediately. I mean those two girls said he’s going to meet you. It didn’t happen. We&#13;
were stalled. We were told it wasn’t going to happen. And my recollection is we got&#13;
really busy doing other stuff—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Other things, yes. And we dropped it.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes. We didn’t keep—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: We were going to go and do a protest at the board meeting—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: A follow-up thing.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: But at that point, we were doing this work in Idaho and something about the radio&#13;
station, MEGA KQ which had a very homophobic guy who did the morning program and&#13;
we did stuff there. So it just never happened. But there were articles in the paper. So it&#13;
became known that Alice Austen—who Alice Austen was. It was in Staten Island papers.&#13;
So everybody there knew. And eventually what happened was they kept—the board&#13;
composition changed and people wanted to make it known. So now it was made a&#13;
national historic landmark and so the people there decided that they had to take her out of&#13;
the closet and make it—so now all the information is there about her and Gertrude Tate&#13;
and the fact that they lived together, et cetera. And so twenty-five years later but this is&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 55&#13;
the way activism works. You don’t always know what impact you’re going to have and&#13;
when. You just do it.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: What happened with the woman doing her Ph.D.? Did you ever hear her story?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: She did her Ph.D. She got her Ph.D.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Did she ever get access to the archives again?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I don’t know if she ever did. She did her thesis so she obviously had enough&#13;
information. So I don’t think they let her back in. But she had enough information at that&#13;
point to write the paper because there had been one other paper that was written in the&#13;
‘70s that I have a copy of. And she obviously by that time had enough to write about.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: So tell me about your own rediscovery of this history. Had you been aware of the&#13;
Alice Austen House and that story before this woman approached you and if not, after&#13;
she approached you, how did you go about rediscovering the history and doing the&#13;
research yourself?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Well, I am a coordinator at the Lesbian Herstory Archives which is the oldest and&#13;
largest lesbian archives in the world and I’ve been there since 1984. And we have a file&#13;
called—well, first of all, we have people there who are photographers but we have a file&#13;
called biographical files. So actually when she came, she came to the archives to do&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 56&#13;
research. So when someone does that, you can’t possibly know everything that’s in the&#13;
archives. And I’m not an art historian. Now we have a coordinator who is an art historian.&#13;
I’m sure she knew who Alice Austen was before then.&#13;
&#13;
I had seen this photograph, which is very famous and a lot of lesbians know it because&#13;
there used to be historical postcards made that you could buy and this was one of the&#13;
things that was always—you could always get a postcard of it. So I’m sure that&#13;
somewhere in my head I had her name but not really knowing what all that she did. But&#13;
when this woman came, I went upstairs to the biographic files as I would do with&#13;
anybody, and I said, “Well, let me see what we have.” And sure enough, we had two&#13;
folders on Alice Austen. So from that point on, I started finding out about Alice Austen.&#13;
So I think that that’s the other thing about when I said you do research. We couldn’t have&#13;
written this brochure. There’s much more inside about who Alice Austen was and what&#13;
she did and that came from research that we did in order to do the brochure.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I didn’t know her at all. The same thing, I recognized this photograph. I had no&#13;
idea who Alice Austen was. No idea she was so close by, like Staten Island. So it was&#13;
only from that woman coming to the meeting, that I discovered who she was really. And&#13;
also realized after doing some research, I actually recognized a lot of her photographs,&#13;
including the photos of newsboys on the Lower East Side, like lots of her photography&#13;
was very familiar. And I had no idea it had been a woman in the first place, never mind&#13;
Alice Austen. So that was kind of fantastic.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 57&#13;
Wolfe: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: So rediscovering her story, somebody who was openly long-term coupled in that&#13;
particular period in history, what did rediscovering that kind of history mean to you?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Well, I think at this time, I was just completely appalled that they were&#13;
covering it up. I can’t believe they’re doing this. That was really appalling because it was&#13;
so obvious. Once we started doing the research, I think they had been together for forty&#13;
years. It was more like forty years and Gertrude Tate broke an engagement to a man to be&#13;
with Alice Austen. And Alice Austen was clearly—they were devoted to each other.&#13;
Their friends and their family knew that they were in a relationship, that they were&#13;
lesbians.&#13;
&#13;
I think part of what was going on at this time in the ‘90s too, horrifying statistics coming&#13;
out about gay teens killing themselves. So one of the things was if you’re a kid, your&#13;
family in Staten Island is going to the Alice Austen House on a Sunday afternoon to have&#13;
a look at her photos, her house is beautiful and the situation is gorgeous. That was also a&#13;
really nice surprise. It’s right on the water.&#13;
&#13;
So it’s probably the kind of place families would go and you go into the museum and&#13;
there’s a little videotape. It would be really nice for your children and yourself and&#13;
especially your gay children that nobody knows they’re gay yet, to be told that Alice and&#13;
Gertrude were together for forty years and here are her gay friends and some of her&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 58&#13;
photographs. Here are some of her photographs on the Lower East Side in the early&#13;
twentieth century. But she also documented her life as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
That kind of thing would have made a huge difference to me as a kid, going oh, okay,&#13;
that’s interesting, good. I mean I was appalled by that, that they had totally, totally&#13;
closeted her. It was really shocking.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I think I was more aware because of working at the archives, I know what people&#13;
have done. I have so many stories of older, especially about older lesbians whose families&#13;
have thrown out their stuff or don’t like their—there was a labor organizer whose name&#13;
was Eleanor [G.] Coit. Her papers are at Harvard [University] and Radcliffe [Institute for&#13;
Advanced Study] in the Schlesinger Library and they never mention that she was a&#13;
lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
But there’s a guy who was an archivist, his name is Bert Hansen and he was walking&#13;
down the street one day and he saw this paper on the ground. When you’re an archivist,&#13;
you pick up paper on the ground. You pick up paper everywhere. So he picked up this&#13;
thing and it was a love letter. And so he picked them all up and they were a whole bunch&#13;
of love letters that she and her partner had written to one another over the years. And she&#13;
had just died and her family was throwing it out.&#13;
&#13;
That happens all the time and it still happens. It’s one of the things, like at the archives&#13;
when I take people on tours of the archives and especially when I get to the individual&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 59&#13;
files because we have organization files. We have a lot of things at the archives. When I&#13;
get to the individual files, one of the things that I say to women, young women, old&#13;
women, it doesn’t matter who, “Your life is important. People are going to want to know&#13;
about it. They’re going to want to know that you were here.” So if you have things, start a&#13;
file.&#13;
&#13;
We are not an archive about famous women. We are an archive about any lesbian. So we&#13;
have lesbian secretaries, we have lesbian strippers. We have lesbian writers, we have&#13;
everything. So send us ten pieces of paper about your life. We’ll give you a special&#13;
collection. Then from then on, you can keep adding to it all the time and someone can&#13;
come because we tell them stories, which we have several of, of people whose families&#13;
threw all this stuff away. You don’t want that to happen. You want somebody to know&#13;
you existed and this is a place, which will honor the fact that you existed.&#13;
&#13;
So a story like Alice Austen and this thing about the Alice Austen House and how they&#13;
had to be pushed into acknowledging who she was, is a way of saying to people, see, this&#13;
is what could happen. So you need to be somebody who puts your life somewhere that&#13;
somebody can find out about it because everyone who comes into the archives should see&#13;
an image of themselves. That means a whole range of people. In this case, it’s a famous&#13;
photographer but it can also be a secretary that nobody knows was ever around.&#13;
&#13;
So that’s one of our principles at the archives. I’ve been living with that kind of concept&#13;
for a long time because I’ve been a volunteer and a coordinator at the archives. But it is,&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 60&#13;
it’s always shocking. It’s still as shocking to me that people throw away somebody’s life&#13;
like that, not because they’re just getting rid of things but because they don’t want&#13;
somebody to know. During the AIDS crisis, if I tell you how many families destroyed&#13;
any evidence of their sons, didn’t want anybody to know they existed, didn’t want them&#13;
to know they were sick, horrible stories.&#13;
&#13;
So it’s across the board in the gay community for different reasons. It’s always shocking&#13;
when you find out about it. Then when you can do something about it, it’s great. When&#13;
you can be one of the people who makes sure that somebody remembers them, it’s&#13;
really—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I’m so glad they didn’t destroy her photography.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Her photography, yes.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I mean these were not even family. These were friends of Alice Austen who&#13;
had decided—they had decided they were going to tell a version, which was not the real&#13;
version. And they could have decided they were going to destroy the photographs.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Well they didn’t have a lot of the—she sold a lot of the plates that she had in&#13;
order to have money. So actually, the Staten Island Historical Society had more of her&#13;
stuff than the Alice Austen House did.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 61&#13;
Maguire: Good.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I think that was one of the reasons that—well, I think it was one of the reasons&#13;
that some things got preserved.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: In this context of preserving history, I wanted to ask you about your thoughts on the&#13;
relationship between survival and visibility.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I have a pin that says lesbian visibility means lesbian survival. Okay, that was&#13;
from a group that I belonged to a long time ago but I think it is a big thing.&#13;
&#13;
People—one of the other things that I often say to people on tours is that everybody&#13;
thinks that we’re so far advanced and we have gone so far that life is wonderful. And I&#13;
say to them, “You know, there are kids in Brooklyn that are still killing themselves.” In&#13;
Brooklyn. We’re not talking about some rural place somewhere that you think from your&#13;
own—I don’t know—superior attitude are backwards. We’re talking about the City of&#13;
New York, okay, that people think of as being sophisticated and advanced and&#13;
everything.&#13;
&#13;
Yes, we have definitely made strides and definitely many more of us are out and many&#13;
more of us lead lives that are good and supportive and we have friends and our families&#13;
haven’t thrown us out, et cetera. But there are still kids being thrown out of their homes.&#13;
There are still kids being abused because they’re gay. There are still people being killed&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 62&#13;
because they’re gay or lesbian or trans. The world hasn’t gotten that good yet. And&#13;
there’s still a huge amount to do.&#13;
&#13;
So definitely visibility. Visibility exposes you to violence but visibility eventually means&#13;
survival because if you’re not going to be visible, if you’re not going to say to people that&#13;
your life matters—I always say to people, “This is not a lifestyle. This is a life.” It’s not a&#13;
style. It means that you have to be out there in order for people to see as I said, an image&#13;
of themselves, so that they know that who they are is a good thing, not a bad thing. And&#13;
there are still plenty of young people and older people, there’s still plenty of closeted&#13;
older people who still are afraid to come out. Now there have been a lot of discussions&#13;
about older people in nursing homes—gay people who are separated from their partners,&#13;
who can’t admit that they’re gay and the need to do trainings in those places.&#13;
&#13;
So across the life span, there are still so much for us to do and it’s not about marriage. It’s&#13;
about life, it’s about being able to live your life as anyone else would live their life and&#13;
not have to hide and not be afraid. So I think that that’s—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, I think it’s still really important.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: That’s a very important part about life, survival and visibility go together. As long&#13;
as we’re hiding, people can do things to us that are worse than what they would do if&#13;
we’re out because hiding says that we know that there’s something wrong. That’s what&#13;
hiding says. I know why people do it. That’s not a judgment to these people but definitely&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 63&#13;
that’s the message that comes to the rest of the world, that if you have to hide something,&#13;
it must be a bad thing, a secret.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: I’d love to hear your thoughts on this too.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: You’ve kind of said it all. I mean I don’t feel like much has changed for me&#13;
around visibility since I was quite young. I mean I had this thing growing up where I&#13;
thought, I’m completely comfortable with who I am. It’s everybody else who has the&#13;
issue. It’s not me, it’s everyone else. But that for me, I now know in hindsight was a way&#13;
for me to stay closeted.&#13;
&#13;
I didn’t come out to most—like my friends and my family, until I was about twenty-one.&#13;
I had told my sisters like much earlier, when I was in my—fifteen maybe, and a couple of&#13;
close friends. But I moved out of my family home and that was it. I mean I came out&#13;
everywhere. Once I did it, I did it. I came out at work and I got transferred out of the&#13;
office because people were so uncomfortable. People thought I was joking at first&#13;
because it was such a funny thing to say. Yes, it was like I was hilarious. That was a&#13;
really good joke I just made and I’d say, “I’m not joking. I’m serious about this.” And&#13;
three weeks later, I was transferred.&#13;
&#13;
So I kind of felt once I had done it once, internally I had figured out, no, what you’re&#13;
telling yourself there is a way for you to maintain keeping it to yourself. Because you’re&#13;
totally fine with it. It’s just like once you put it out there; all the people who are not are&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 64&#13;
going to be trouble. So when I figured out I was protecting myself because I didn’t want&#13;
to come out. I think that’s all a visibility thing.&#13;
&#13;
Then when I came out, I wanted to—basically I had a really good role model. An English&#13;
woman who was in the Labour Party who came to conferences every once in awhile in&#13;
Dublin that I would show up to, and she basically said that every sentence that came out&#13;
of her mouth was, “As a lesbian.” Then she would give her political opinion on anything&#13;
and everything. So I thought, okay, this is the way it has to be now. I wasn’t as in your&#13;
face as Sarah [Roelofs] but I really loved that. I loved that she was political. She was&#13;
working on all kinds of campaigns on women’s reproductive rights, lesbian rights,&#13;
disability issues and anti-racist stuff, Irish politics, everything, but everything was, “As a&#13;
lesbian, here’s my position on this.” So she was fantastic.&#13;
&#13;
So the visibility thing, now also I think it’s really important to be visible as lesbians.&#13;
Lesbians we’re in the moment of disappearing again. One of the things I really can’t&#13;
stand is the LGBTQ everything because nobody has to say the words. I much prefer when&#13;
I hear anything on radio and I hear people standing up at meetings. But when I see it&#13;
written down, I want to hear you say every single word because you are talking about us.&#13;
We are not initials or letters. You are talking about real people here. So I want to hear&#13;
everything. I want to hear lesbian. I want to hear trans. But mostly at the moment, I want&#13;
to hear lesbian again because we are in a mode of being disappeared. So I think visibility&#13;
is always essential, always essential for our survival, totally.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 65&#13;
Q1: It occurred to me that the first inclusion in the St. Patrick’s Day parade was just this&#13;
past one and the first announcement and embracing of the Alice Austen House as a&#13;
national LGBTQ [Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans Queer] landmark was just this year. Why&#13;
twenty-five years? Why is that a magic number? What are your thoughts on that—being&#13;
involved as you have been the whole time?&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I think it’s a coincidence in these things. I think the St. Patrick’s Day parade&#13;
was the first time an Irish—they messed it up the previous year and they invited a group&#13;
of gay corporate—NBC, like we are all friends, straight and gay together at NBC&#13;
basically. It’s a corporate group. There were eruptions. It’s like oh please, it’s been&#13;
twenty-five years. Just let Irish gay people march if they want at this point.&#13;
&#13;
But the parade thing, my analysis of it was NBC were going to pull the broadcast.&#13;
Guinness was pulling out. The sponsors were pulling out. And then it’s like okay, we&#13;
better let the gays in now. So that’s what I think it was with them. Otherwise, they were&#13;
determined. They did not want gay people in the parade—Irish gay people.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And I think we need to say that Irish gay people—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: It was Irish gay people.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Because we’d get crazed. They would say, “Gay people want to march in the&#13;
parade.” No Irish people want to march in the parade who are gay. They would just&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 66&#13;
eliminate the Irish part and they would make it seem like just some random group of gay&#13;
people want to march in the Irish—who wanted to march in the Irish, the St. Patrick’s&#13;
Day parade? Why would you want to march in it, because you’re gay? That wasn’t the&#13;
point. The point was you were Irish. And they just kept eliminating it.&#13;
&#13;
Yes, I agree with Anne though, this year it was all about losing sponsorship and a lot of&#13;
corporate entities have realized that it’s in their better interest to support gay and lesbian&#13;
people because first of all, we are purchasers and there’s a certain segment of the gay&#13;
community that does marketing, that has pushed out this thing that we have—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Tons of money.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Tons of disposable income. Who are those people? I don’t know. They’re not the&#13;
people I know. But still that’s what the marketing shows because they go after all these&#13;
high-income, mostly gay men. So I think the parade stuff—but even there, they didn’t ask&#13;
the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization. They didn’t ask the Fed Up Queers. Who did&#13;
they ask? The Lavender and Green [Alliance].&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Closet-y name, very closet-y. When that group started, people thought it was an&#13;
environmental group. This was the argument we had at the first meeting and the guy who&#13;
started the Lavender and the Green was at the first meeting and he wanted the boys to be&#13;
upfront and he wanted a closet-y name. It could be very safe. The message was it’s safe&#13;
to be in the closet and basically the other crowd was, no, the message is here. We all left&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 67&#13;
Ireland and now we are coming out and we are not going back into the closet. It was just&#13;
so interesting and the contingent was mostly straight people. Irish writers and politicians&#13;
and people who think they should have gotten a clap on the back for marching with Irish&#13;
gay people, twenty-five years after the fact. To me it was like twenty-five years too late.&#13;
You can stuff it.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes, yes.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Really. It’s like everyone else has moved on and you think you’re being&#13;
magnanimous now. I don’t think so. Stuff your parade.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes, right. The Alice Austen House—I think what might have spurred that is that&#13;
this year, there was a whole move to create national lesbian and gay monuments, historic&#13;
sites.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Landmarks, yes.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: It didn’t start with the Alice Austen House. It started with a group of gay people&#13;
who decided to make a list of spaces across the country that were known to be lesbian or&#13;
gay or trans spaces. The Archives is one of them but there were others. They picked the&#13;
Alice Austen House.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 68&#13;
So basically it was defensive for the Alice Austen House to name themselves, rather than&#13;
to have somebody else name them that because they were going to be on a list anyway.&#13;
So if I had to pick why it was now—and I think also to their credit, I think that there are&#13;
people now who are involved at the Alice Austen House who actually want this to&#13;
happen from their own point of view, not just because of that. I think they can get support&#13;
for it because it was going to be out there anyway. It’s kind of like if you know your&#13;
enemies are going to come after you, you might as well put yourself out there first. But I&#13;
definitely think on the positive side, that there were people in the Alice Austen House&#13;
who decided that it was time and that they knew all this stuff and this was a good time to&#13;
do it.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Did you have anyone from the original protest who wanted to go down and see the&#13;
proclamation or be involved in any way?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: You know, they did it so fast.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: It was very fast.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I couldn’t even go. I couldn’t even go. First of all, they did it during Gay Pride.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: That’s right.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 69&#13;
Wolfe: They did it the week right before the march, a few days. I think it was the&#13;
Thursday of the week that the Gay Pride march was on Sunday. I didn’t get a notice of it&#13;
until a day beforehand.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, I think the day before it, I think we heard.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I couldn’t go.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: No, me neither.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: There was no way. Nobody from the archives could go because the month of&#13;
June, we have a zillion events, not just things that we go to but things we do ourselves.&#13;
And nobody could go. I would have loved to have gone.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I got to put up a Facebook post. That was it. Going back to the action that we&#13;
did and some photographs, because when we heard there was a copy of the proclamation.&#13;
So to be able to say it’s now a landmark, look, this is so many years later. But no, we&#13;
couldn’t go to that.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: They really did it like in an instant.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 70&#13;
Q1: Do you think—?&#13;
&#13;
Q2: Liz, just to let you know, it’s four o’clock.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Oh, it’s four o’clock. I’ll just ask you a few more questions then. But do you think&#13;
your action and actions like it started to push people to think about making lists like this?&#13;
What is the line between what you did back in ’94 and what’s happened just this past&#13;
year?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: I think there are a couple of reasons. There is an association of lesbian and gay&#13;
archives. There have been several theses that have been written in the past couple of&#13;
years. Like for instance, I know two that are about lesbian spaces in New York and I’m&#13;
sure there are more. Those are women I know that came to the archives to do their&#13;
research.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And then there’s stuff like Barbara Hammer’s movie. She has a retrospective.&#13;
Someone has a retrospective—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: She’s having one now.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, exactly. It comes up again and people would be like, oh, my god, this&#13;
place in Staten Island.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 71&#13;
Wolfe: And I also think that there’s a feeling in the lesbian and gay community that it’s&#13;
time to mark these spaces because people are dying, older lesbians and gay men who&#13;
managed to survive the crisis, that their people are dying of natural causes. And their&#13;
memories are going to be gone.&#13;
&#13;
I know for instance that there’s a group of women who have done—it’s called the Old&#13;
Lesbian Oral Herstory Project. So I think people are starting to realize—I mean we’ve&#13;
done oral history—we have three thousand oral histories at the archives. People are&#13;
starting—it actually started with ACT UP, this whole focus on history, on documenting&#13;
your history. It was the first organization that I was in where people actively made videos&#13;
about the actions and who was involved and what was happening, there’s the ACT UP&#13;
Oral History Project. There’s a Lesbian Avenger project. There’s just a lot of these that&#13;
are happening now because people realize unless we do it, it’s not going to be out there.&#13;
&#13;
So I think that there’s a whole move to document the history of the community because&#13;
we’ve been out. We weren’t out for a really long time. It’s been only since the ‘60s, the&#13;
end of the ‘60s that there’s been a visible community. And people are starting to have&#13;
anniversaries that are meaningful in the whole world. Like for instance, the Pride march.&#13;
It’s coming up on its fiftieth year. The archives, the Lesbian Herstory Archives, we’re&#13;
going to be our forty-fifth year.&#13;
&#13;
So the things that have survived, people want to make sure that they’re documented and&#13;
that we document the history of the things that didn’t. People coming to the archives this&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 72&#13;
year, there’s been a lot of theses on the Lesbian Avengers. ACT UP again has sort of&#13;
reemerged. My friend, Avram [Finkelstein], just published his book about the oral history&#13;
of the images in ACT UP. People are doing histories of the movement in various ways,&#13;
videos about it, the one about Sylvia [R.] Rivera, the one that’s out there, that was done a&#13;
few years ago about Blue London [phonetic], about individuals.&#13;
&#13;
I just think it’s a moment where people have been out long enough, that they feel that it’s&#13;
time to say we’re here and we’ve been here. I always think that takes time because people&#13;
always feel, well, how can I write a history one year afterwards? But now it’s thirty years&#13;
after the beginning of the AIDS crisis. It’s twenty-five years after certain other things. So&#13;
people feel it’s enough time to look back and be able to document it before the people&#13;
who are involved disappear.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: I also want to point out just as we’re wrapping up that the Alice Austen House site is&#13;
the first queer national historic landmark in New York State to be given to a woman.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: That’s right.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: That’s one of the things I put in my post when we heard that was happening.&#13;
Yes, it’s just interesting. Is it the only one that’s been dedicated to a woman anywhere&#13;
though? Not just in New York?&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 73&#13;
&#13;
Q1: I’ll have to check.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I think it was the first one—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Anywhere.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Across the board, yes. I think it was. Yes, that’s good we did that action twentyfive years ago. We can say we did that action. We knew about her then.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: [Laughs] Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: But I think it just speaks to this idea that you were saying, that lesbian needs to be&#13;
underscored—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Yes.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Absolutely.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: It’s always true. When we get asked about things—I’ll just give you an example.&#13;
When the New York Public Library did their first exhibit, it was called Becoming Visible:&#13;
[An Illustrated History of Lesbian and Gay Life in Twentieth Century America], which is&#13;
really funny because it was becoming visible to them. But anyway, most of the&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 74&#13;
information they had in the library at that time, were what we call our enemies. In order&#13;
to do that exhibit, they had to borrow things from everybody because they didn’t have&#13;
any of that information.&#13;
&#13;
One of the things that happened was this person came to the—had a meeting at the&#13;
community center. Like three hundred people showed up. And they had five people from&#13;
the New York Public Library and one guy stood up and he said, “It’s really important.&#13;
We definitely need material but we specifically—” and this is what everyone says “—we&#13;
specifically need lesbian material because we don’t have lesbian material. It’s very&#13;
difficult to get lesbian material.” And a woman stood up in the room and said, “Come to&#13;
my basement.”&#13;
&#13;
The truth is that most of the archives, even the gay archives that exist, they say that they&#13;
are LGBTQ but they are really G and T. And the L and the B are gone and that is true. So&#13;
there are only two—well two big women’s archives, lesbian archives. There’s the June&#13;
Mazer [Lesbian Archives] collection in California and the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&#13;
There’s the Cincinnati Ohio Lesbian Archives which is a small one but it’s there. And&#13;
there’s a couple in Europe. There’s Spinnboden which is in Germany but that’s it. All of&#13;
the other archives, most of their material is from gay men. That’s number one. Secondly,&#13;
most of their material is about famous people, which is not true of either lesbian archive&#13;
or any of the ones that I know.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 75&#13;
So definitely that’s part of the issue is that is missing and people say that they don’t know&#13;
where it is. I say, “Come to the archives. We have twelve thousand books.” Twelve&#13;
thousand books that are by or about lesbians. I bet you had no idea there were twelve&#13;
thousand books by or about lesbians and that’s what women say when they come in,&#13;
visitors. They go, “Oh, my God, these are all about lesbians?” Because who knows? It’s&#13;
not stuff that’s around, where there’s so much more about gay men out there then there is&#13;
about anybody else really.&#13;
&#13;
It’s just a statement of the way the world works, which is the patriarchy. That’s what&#13;
we’re dealing with here. It doesn’t matter whether it’s straight or gay. It’s not any&#13;
different. It’s who has the power in the world and the people with the power define what&#13;
is history.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: On that thought, I’d love to get both of your thoughts on the meaning of a physical&#13;
space, not just an archive, not just a history but a space that is rooted to a person and to a&#13;
place in time, you can visit with your kids. Talk to me about the meaning of that site&#13;
being recognized as openly lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: That’s incredible. That makes it so—obviously it’s material. It’s real. It’s&#13;
something that somebody can touch. It’s not just an idea. That’s why I think it’s so&#13;
important that they have information of the relationship between those two women,&#13;
because it’s something that you see where they lived and then you read about them, it&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 76&#13;
makes it real, whereas just reading about them, you have to kind of imagine what was&#13;
their life like and stuff. That way they’re in a place.&#13;
&#13;
So anything like that—that’s why people wanted to make Stonewall Inn like a national&#13;
spot and the Lesbian Herstory Archives and other spaces that the community has used in&#13;
the same way that you make that about straight people. If you know where Audre Lorde&#13;
lived, why shouldn’t there be a plaque on her building? She was the Poet Laureate of&#13;
New York State besides being an amazing lesbian poet. Or Adrienne Rich or any of those&#13;
people. They lived places. And I think that’s—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: It’s really important. One of the first things I thought when I heard it got the&#13;
landmark—I have a niece and nephew here and I thought fantastic, now I have a place to&#13;
bring them. I don’t need to give them the streets. It’s going to be there. But it’s like she&#13;
walked around and she saw the river from this angle at some point.&#13;
&#13;
That’s so important and I was thinking that when I told you about one of the first things I&#13;
did when Bobby Sands died, and my brother and myself, we knew to go to the general&#13;
post office in Dublin. We knew that this was a place because it had history. It had&#13;
meaning. It was where the rising, the people who revolted in 1916 took over this&#13;
building. So it has meaning. You know that these people were in this building trying to&#13;
rise up against British rule.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 77&#13;
I kind of feel the same about Alice Austen House. This is where she lived and we are&#13;
marking it. We are saying this is really important. It’s important to us. It’s important to&#13;
everyone to know this and here it is. It’s like, you can touch it.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Well, what you’re saying about the post office, in New York, whenever anything&#13;
goes down, any kind of Supreme Court ruling, where do people go? Stonewall. You don’t&#13;
even have to ask. Show up at Stonewall after work and there are going to be people there.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I don’t think Alice Austen House is going to become a place like that but it&#13;
might be like you want to go do something. You think you might have a gay nephew or a&#13;
little—&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Or just to tell—[crosstalk].&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Let’s go out in the ferry and go visit Alice Austen House.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: It’s a beautiful place besides—&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: It’s gorgeous. Yes, it’s really gorgeous.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: It’s a really nice place to visit.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: And great photographs and great history. So yes, it’s really important.&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 78&#13;
&#13;
Q1: I’m just going to say thank you very much. Is there anything I should have asked you&#13;
during this time that we spent together?&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: [Laughs]&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: I haven’t talked so much in a long time.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Me neither [laughs].&#13;
&#13;
Q1: I really appreciate all the memories you guys shared today, absolutely beautiful.&#13;
Thank you again for the work that you did twenty-five years ago, making many things to&#13;
be accomplished.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Thinking up funny songs. That’s what we love doing.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: We had such a great time.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Yes, I really like fun actions.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: We had such fun doing this. It was really—that’s what I mean, doing serious&#13;
things but in a way—&#13;
&#13;
�Maguire, Wolfe – 1 – 79&#13;
Maguire: You need to have fun every once in awhile.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: And it gets to people when you do something like that. They get it in a way they&#13;
don’t otherwise.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Well, a revolution without dancing.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Thank you for asking us to do this.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Exactly, yes, not interested.&#13;
&#13;
Q2: I’m going to stop blinding you now.&#13;
&#13;
Q1: Thank you very much.&#13;
&#13;
Wolfe: Thank you for doing this.&#13;
&#13;
Maguire: Thank you.&#13;
&#13;
[END OF INTERVIEW]&#13;
&#13;
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&#13;
Side1 &#13;
Blythe Masters from JP Morgan Chase introduces Ruth Berman and Connie Kurtz . Connie recalls feeling different from an early age,  issues with shame about being different, and the necessity to challenge the system that makes people feel that way. She talks about her relationship with her family and with Ruthies Family.  Ruthie talks about being a mother, coming out as a lesbian as a parent, and her illness that resulted from her internal struggle and shame related to being a Lesbian.  Ruthie talks about applying for partner benefits for Connie that lead to the lawsuit against the New York State Board of Eduction and her experience working with Lambda Legal. Ruthie discusses the collective power that queer people and their allies have. &#13;
&#13;
Side 2 &#13;
Ruthie + Connie talk about their film and take questions from the audience. They discuss making politicians accountable during their time in office and demanding full legal acknowledgement and recognition of rights and personhood. They talk about their involvement with their synagogue, and the power of corperate and professional LGBT groups.&#13;
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Mary Garrison</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Sally+Gearheart"&gt;Sally Gearhart&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Beverly+Fisher"&gt;Beverly Fisher&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Feminist Radio Network (FRN) arose out of the WGTB collective &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/112"&gt;Radio Free Women&lt;/a&gt; in 1974 amidst alienating conditions at the Georgetown University radio station. As an independent radio network, FRN sought a wider audience and distributed feminist audiotapes nationally.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection contains a compilation of episodes from the Feminist Radio Network digitized by students at Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
Source: Alexa Freeman et. al. (1976). &lt;a href="https://jstor.org/stable/community.28042846"&gt;Quest: A Feminist Quarterly, 3(2)&lt;/a&gt;.</text>
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                  <text>Lisa Cowan</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/105"&gt;Lisa Cowan Audio Collection&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>This episode is titled Women in Welfare and features discussions from Carol Brill, the director of the Massachusetts chapter of the National Association of Social Workers (NASW), and welfare advocates Kayla Taylor, and Susan Moore. This episode covers the topics of the welfare system structure, stereotypes and myths about welfare recipients, double standards working mothers face based on class, and the classism within the social work profession. Furthermore, it includes clips from governmental proceedings related to welfare and proposed cuts to welfare benefits. It ends with a discussion on how the issues within the welfare system relate to the Women’s Liberation Movement and demands economic change from politicians who fund big business and the military while disregarding the poor through welfare cuts. </text>
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                <text>Not to be used for publication without the express written consent of Liza Cowan. Contact the Lesbian Herstory Archive for Liza Cowan’s contact information.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Carol Barill: the Welfare Coalition and Executive Director of the Eastern Massachusetts chapter of the Association of Social Workers</text>
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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                <text>Discusses growing up in Buffalo, when she realized she was first gay at a young age, and going to clubs</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt; See the LHA Copyright Statement &lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Lesbian Herstory Archives, Contact Designation: Maxine Wolfe, Contact Address: 484 14th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11215, Phone Number: 718-768-3953</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Dyke TV was a groundbreaking public access program founded in 1993 by Mary Patierno, Ana Marie Simo and Linda Chapman. An offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers, the mission of Dyke TV was to incite, provoke, and organize to create tangible change. The program sought to increase lesbian visibility and change people's attitudes towards lesbians, gay rights and women's rights. Dyke TV comprehensively documented a critical time in gay and lesbian history and shared stories important to lesbian communities that were ignored by other media outlets. Dyke TV documented many LGBTQ political actions of the early 1990s including the activities of ACT UP and the Lesbian Avengers. The Dyke TV collection at the Lesbian Herstory Archives consists largely of unedited footage that documents marches and demonstrations in New York City. Other tapes include incomplete episodes and compilations of show segments.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The program first aired in June 1993 on the Manhattan Neighborhood Network public access channel. It started off as a weekly 30-minute program created by a core of producers with help from members of the community. Following a magazine format, each program consisted of various segments such as I Was a Lesbian Child, the Arts, From the Archives, News, and Eyewitness. Areas of interest included lesbian history, daily life, activism, and international LGBTQ issues. The producers aimed to create a well-rounded program that could highlight lesbian life from as many angles as possible. According to one of the program’s co-founders and executive producer, Mary Patierno: “if anybody wanted to do a story we let them do it. We were there to let people voice whatever they wanted to, whatever issues or topics that were of interest to them.” At its peak, Dyke TV was distributed to 78 public access channels throughout the United States.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Additionally, Dyke TV had a mission to provide video production training and conducted regular workshops to enable women to tell their stories through their own means. This community oriented attitude fomented widespread contributions about lesbian issues across the United States and abroad.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                <text>An email sent by David B. O'Donnell containing text from a June 19, 1995 article in the Colorado Daily called "Dyke TV is hateful? Prove it" by Richard Cendo. According to the article, Melanie J. Schurr refers to Dyke TV as a hate show due to its aversion toward "straights." The author argues that the show may be for lesbians, but that there is no evidence that points to it being averse to different sexual orientations.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt;See the LHA Copyright Statement &lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Audre Lorde (February 18, 1934 – November 17, 1992) was a celebrated and influential Caribbean-American poet, novelist, autobiographer, and publisher whose art and life explored  issues of race, class, sexuality, gender, and illness.&#13;
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                <text>March on Washington/Pacifica Program Service, 1979 (Tape 1 of 4)</text>
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                <text>National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights, Washington, D.C., 1979, Gay rights,Civil rights</text>
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                <text>Tape 1 of 4 of a collection of cassette recordings of the NPR/Pacifica Radio national broadcast of coverage of the 1979 Washington DC march and rally for gay rights.  Side A includes speeches by Robin Tyler, Troy Perry, Adelle Starr, and Michiko Cornell, as well as brief interviews with spectators in the crowd.  Topics covered on side A include general theme of gay rights, as well as advocacy for gay youth and gay Asian Americans.  Side B includes speeches by Rene McCoy, Bill Blish, Arly Scott, Maria Diaz, and Steve Alt, as well as brief interviews with spectators in the crowd.  Topics covered include general gay/civil rights themes, advocacy for promotion of parental support for gay/lesbian children and discussion of Mayor Berry decision to declare "Gay/Lesbian Awareness Week".  Side B. also also includes the song, "Not Anymore", (performed by Celebration).</text>
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                <text>Side A. (mp3) http://herstory.prattsils.org/mp3_files/spw1158_A.mp3  Side A. (wav) http://herstory.prattsils.org/wav_files/spw1158_A.wav</text>
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                <text>Digitized: June 2011</text>
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                <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Contact LHA at &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="mailto:dyv.lha@gmail.com"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;dyv.lha@gmail.com&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                <text>Tape 1 of a 4 tape series.  Followed by SPW1159, SPW1160 and SPW1161.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Margie+Adam"&gt;Margie Adam&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Jennifer+Woodul"&gt;Jennifer Woodul&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>This collection includes interviews with musicians and record label owners conducted by Ruth Scovill. Scovill is a notable figure of the Women’s Music movement. The Women’s Music movement sought to highlight music about women, by women, and for women, challenging popular notions about and conventional approaches to music. In her piece for “Women’s Culture: The Women's Renaissance of the Seventies”, Scovill reflects, “Women’s Music reflects a consciousness of women-identification. In contrast to popular music’s prevalent degradation of women, Women’s Music holds the feminist and humanist ideals of self-affirmation and mutual support” (17).&#13;
&#13;
Scovill has served as a Senior Advisor of Library Services at the Library of Congress, president at Cinesite, and the Head of Technology at DreamWorks Animation. She is also a director, writer, and host. She holds a particular interest in and focus on feminine and sapphic culture, particularly its positioning in and relation to music culture. </text>
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                <text>Susan Abod is interviewed by Ruth Scovill. The tape starts in the middle of a conversation. Susan talks about women’s rock music as the antithesis to “cockrock,” or rock music for and by men. She discusses her journey of auditioning and joining bands, and being influences by socialism, feminism, and how she joined a political band of women. (Some audio distortion). She talks about rewriting song lyrics, the concepts of straight-baiting, utopian politics, and differences between women’s music and feminist lyrics in music. Around 49:30 the narrator changes, and the topic changes to the Woman’s Coffee Coven, which later became a production company. This may be the predecessor of Olivia Records.</text>
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                <text>Ruth Scovill&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;The audio starts with a conversation with a woman discussing activism, being an out lesbian parent, and atheticism and answering questions from the auidence. She talks about "The Gay Games" and the healing effect of sports for women and girls. Questions from the audience include comments on finding community at the intersection of elder lesbians and sports.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;At 9:41 the audio cuts to a panel discussion with Ruth Berman and Connie Kurtz. They play &lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1TeFlRPQLc"&gt;a clip of Ruthie + Connie's 1988 apperance on the Phil Donahue Show.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;Ruth and Connie talk about their personal hsitroy and early activism, their lawsuit against the New York City Board of Education for domestic partner benefits, the importance of being political and of coming out. They also talk about oening a counceling cener in their home and issues with the Butch/Femme Bianary.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span&gt;At 28:41 the audio switches to Joan Nestle speaking about the Lesbian Herstory Archives and the importance of including reords about diverse Lesbian History.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;AT 33:11 a woman from the aidence speaks from the perspective of radical lesbians who have never had children or been married and about expanding the lesbian agenda in the future. She reads from a &lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;a piece she wrote called “a week in the life of a 60 Year Old Lesbian” about her activism within the lesbian community.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Sally+Gearheart"&gt;Sally Gearhart&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=kayla+taylor"&gt;Kayla Taylor&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Alice+Walker"&gt;Alice Walker&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Grace+Paley"&gt;Grace Paley&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Rita+Mae+Brown"&gt;Rita Mae Brown&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Karen+Kollias"&gt;Karen Kollias&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Beverly+Fisher"&gt;Beverly Fisher&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Feminist Radio Network (FRN) arose out of the WGTB collective &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/112"&gt;Radio Free Women&lt;/a&gt; in 1974 amidst alienating conditions at the Georgetown University radio station. As an independent radio network, FRN sought a wider audience and distributed feminist audiotapes nationally.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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Source: Alexa Freeman et. al. (1976). &lt;a href="https://jstor.org/stable/community.28042846"&gt;Quest: A Feminist Quarterly, 3(2)&lt;/a&gt;.</text>
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                  <text>Lisa Cowan</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/105"&gt;Lisa Cowan Audio Collection&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>In this recording, Sally Gearhart discusses how the Church enforces ideas of masculinity and feminity.  The host argues that feminism is incompatible with Christianity and lesbianism allows a woman to love herself and let go of the self-hatred that society and the Church impose. </text>
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                <text>Not to be used for publication without the express written consent of Liza Cowan. Contact the Lesbian Herstory Archive for Liza Cowan’s contact information.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Women and Religion </text>
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                <text>Sally Gearheart</text>
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                <text>1/4 inch audio tape</text>
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            <name>Digital Format</name>
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                <text>WAV</text>
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                <text>Lesbian Herstory Archive</text>
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        <name>Lesbian Feminism</name>
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        <name>Radical Lesbians</name>
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            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Friends and family gather at the funeral of Diane Cleaver to share stories, reminisce, and pay homage to her.</text>
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                <text>Sara Yager [videographer]</text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt; See the LHA Copyright Statement &lt;/a&gt;&#13;
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              <name>Title</name>
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                  <text>Buffalo Women's Oral History Project, 1978-1990</text>
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              <name>Description</name>
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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        <name>Dublin Core</name>
        <description>The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.</description>
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            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                <text>Shane, undated (Tape 1)</text>
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            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                <text>Breaking the law, Family, Gay bars, Hustlers (Prostitutes), Lesbian bars, Lesbian high school students, Lesbian teenagers, Lesbians--Italian American, Lesbians--New York (State)--Buffalo--History--20th century, Pittsburgh (Pa.), Secrets--Family</text>
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            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Shane talks about getting into trouble during her teenage years and how her father kept sending her to all-girls schools thinking it would straighten her out.  She speaks about gay bars in Buffalo and Pittsburgh.  She tells a story about running away from home to pursue a relationship, ending up involved with hustlers and begging her father to help her stay out of jail.  She talks about moving back to Buffalo, getting a job, and how things have changed.</text>
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            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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                <text>Shane (Interviewee)</text>
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            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
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                <text>SPW526_SHANE_A</text>
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                <text>SPW526_SHANE_B</text>
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            <name>Date Modified</name>
            <description>Date on which the resource was changed.</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
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                <text>Digitized 2012, September</text>
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            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="21599">
                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt; See the LHA Copyright Statement &lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Relation</name>
            <description>A related resource</description>
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                <text>Tape 1 of a 3 tape series.  Followed by SPW527 and SPW528..</text>
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            <name>Is Referenced By</name>
            <description>A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource.</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="21601">
                <text>Kennedy, E. L. &amp; Davis, M. D. (1993). Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: The History of a Lesbian Community. New York: Routledge</text>
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            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                <text>Original= Cassette Tape</text>
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                <text>WAV</text>
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                <text>MP3</text>
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            <name>Extent</name>
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              <elementText elementTextId="21605">
                <text>Side A = 30:21 minutes</text>
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                <text>Side B = 20:31minutes</text>
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            <name>Medium</name>
            <description>The material or physical carrier of the resource.</description>
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                <text>Digital reproduction of audio cassette.</text>
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            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <text>English</text>
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            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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                <text>Sound</text>
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                <text>Oral History Interview</text>
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            <name>Identifier</name>
            <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
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                <text>SPW526</text>
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            <name>Spatial Coverage</name>
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                <text>Buffalo, NY, Pittsburgh, PA, New Orleans, LA</text>
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            <name>Rights Holder</name>
            <description>A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource.</description>
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                <text>Lesbian Herstory Archives, Contact Designation: Maxine Wolfe, Contact Address: 484 14th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11215, Phone Number: 718-768-3953</text>
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        <name>Atheism</name>
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        <name>Education</name>
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        <name>Fathers</name>
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        <name>Friendship</name>
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        <name>Mothers</name>
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        <name>Oral History</name>
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        <name>Parents</name>
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        <name>Relationships</name>
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        <name>Religion</name>
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        <name>Sex Work</name>
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        <name>Work</name>
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